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roronoa79
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28 Jul 2021, 7:10 pm

AngelRho wrote:
You make some excellent points.

I prefer organized meetings, and I think it’s good for everyone on the spectrum for one single reason: Corporate solidarity. There’s also strength in numbers combined with feeling included and valued. I’m not saying this to convince you to start going to any certain church or follow any specific doctrine, just that I do think even if you struggle with social interaction those elements of Christian practice are worth going to church.

It’s very important to have a personal religion outside any organization. Again, corporate solidarity, but I think one’s personal relationship with God as an individual is more important than conformity to a group.

Of course. My statements are not universal for all AS individuals. Some people like structure and regularity. Belonging to a community can be appealing to us, especially when we are often cast out of communities for being different or otherwise not fitting in. It can give a sort of security to have something routine where you feel you can belong and address personal ills and seek guidance.

I feel like having a personal relationship to one's religion is part of what helps one keep ones faith. If you ascribe to a religion to satisfy others, then you aren't going to hold onto that religion if you stop relating to those people--or if they cast you out. It allows for greater flexibility of faith--if that makes sense. Otherwise one's faith can become rigid, unbending, and liable to shatter all at once.

Again, I personally would prefer a less social, more solitary religious life, but that's just me. And remember, I say all this as an atheist/agnostic. The pressure to be part of that community (or you'll go to hell!) was a big part of why I didn't feel like a real part of that community.


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ToughDiamond
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28 Jul 2021, 7:54 pm

I don't know that there would be a religion that was particularly Aspie-friendly, and isn't it more a question of deciding what deity or cosmic intelligence you think exists, and then doing whatever you think you need to do to follow that deity?

Personally I don't think there are any deities or cosmic intelligences, so it would be silly for me to adopt a religion. Most if not all the standard organised religions would probably ask me if I believed in their deity and accepted its rules and dogma, so I doubt they'd want me, and I certainly wouldn't want to spend my time sitting around on a pew listening to them nattering away as if their deity existed when I think it's so unlikely they're correct. So the only one that would come even close to suiting me would be Zen, because it's the only one I know that doesn't preach to you unless you ask them to. But I'm not serious enough about it to want to go and live in a Zen monastery.

If you mean a non-organised religion, i.e. you want to stay unchurched, again it depends entirely on which deity you think exists, and you'd just have to take it from there and live by it, in whatever way you think is right for you. But I don't think recommendations would do much good. I suppose I do Zen in a small way, but only in that I've read a few books about it and listened to some Alan Watts recordings.

Some people say atheism is a religion. I don't think it particularly is, except perhaps for the atheists who feel 100% certain there are no deities, and I can't objectively agree with them because I don't think it's possible to absolutely disprove the existence of things. So as far as I can see they must be applying faith to the question (which I guess is why they sometimes get accused of being a religion), and I don't do faith, I work on the balance of probabilities and I never completely put away the awareness that I could be wrong about a thing.

I think it's correct that there are emotional benefits to being part of a collective thing, which could be a church if you believe in their deity etc., and if you don't believe in any of them, there's the Secular Society and all kinds of groups where people with a common interest (even if it's only a social club) collect together. I've known some socialist organisations that have seemed pretty friendly and supportive, though I've never been a member of any. Groups can be strange things though. Hopefully some of them are genuine and do what they say on the tin, but I've known and heard of a lot of groups where what really goes on is rather different and less benevolent than might be expected from what they say about themselves. There are sometimes some very fishy things going down.



goldfish21
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29 Jul 2021, 12:08 pm

Skimmed the thread, kinda surprised no one has mentioned pastafarian & fsm.

Impressed that Sweetleaf mentioned satanism. It’s actually a pretty solid choice. 8)


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29 Jul 2021, 12:44 pm

goldfish21 wrote:


I haven't quite yet even.. well, I mean, I've megadosed psilocybin & done lsd etc - just have yet to meet Dimitri. I will, though.


Two Words - salvia divinorum.

Its really hard to get the dose right - but too low is far better than too high.

Once I got it right, and met two Great Old Ones for realz. - they were coming out of my wall.

I wanted to play around with mini and micro dose, for the medz, but then it got hard to find.



HeroOfHyrule
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29 Jul 2021, 12:56 pm

I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".


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I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
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Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
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You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


ToughDiamond
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29 Jul 2021, 1:31 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".


That's my sentiments exactly, and it's always freshly strange to me that there's anybody left who doesn't feel the same way.[continued below - CloudCrap won't let me post it all in one go]



ToughDiamond
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29 Jul 2021, 1:32 pm

[continued]

I suspect you'd find it's mostly theists who say atheism is a religion. I looked into it recently, and got the impression they do that so they can call us hypocrites for having a "faith" ourselves while claiming their faith to be nothing more than saying you know something that you don't know. Personally, I don't see it as faith because I accept it's logically impossible to disprove the existence of such a vague notion as God.

Some of them, though, still insist there's no such thing as an agnostic. There's also a notion in Romans I that we're deliberately ignoring some supposed proof of Christianity that's staring us in the face, though they never really explain quite what this proof looks like, and I certainly never saw it. They sometimes cite things like the "watchmaker" analogy, which has been plausibly criticised, and of course analogy isn't proof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Criticism



Mountain Goat
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29 Jul 2021, 2:01 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".



Two aspects that I can point you in the right direction here. The first is that if it is hard going, there is something wrong. This is my experience as Jesus said "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". My experience is this is true. Most of the problem is that we can try too hard where all that is needed is to just believe.
The second is to ask what is it where you find you can't believe in God? I mean... Ok. Do you believe that the earth and everything was made by and through a creator? (Take a look outside at what you see and ask yourself this).
There is an area that I can see you may have conflict in that God said he made two genders and you find yourself non binary which causes you to question along the lines of "God must be wrong"... But the question to ask is "If God just made two genders, then what happened?" Then one will find out the results of lucifer and his efforts to take mankind away from God. This does not mean that anyone non binary has specifically done anything wrong as in Gods eyes sin is an act that starts with a thought, and who has not sinned in one way, form or another? Most binary people sin sexually! Mankind has been infected with the virus of sin, and you will find that by reading the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only true and effective vaccine!

One thing which differs with true Christianity and false Christianity which is a religion rather then a faith (There is a big difference) is that with the true form of Christianity it is all based on faith and not force. False Christianity tries to force people to convert. God will not accept that because God wants people to freely love him as God is love. Forcing people to become Christians turns their hearts away from God and they enter into a religious system that does nothing for them and is perpetuated by a religious drive where it operates like a machine without God.

God loves YOU. He does not want you to enter into a religious machine. He wants to walk with YOU.

Jesus made the way to connect with God.

This is the whole key to Christianity in its simpliest form.


It is totally your choice if you want to walk with God or not, and this is the same for everyone. You are free to chose. God has given you the freedom to chose.

Any religion under any name that denies you the choice and tries to use force to get you to convert does not come from God.



HeroOfHyrule
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29 Jul 2021, 2:09 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".



Two aspects that I can point you in the right direction here. The first is that if it is hard going, there is something wrong. This is my experience as Jesus said "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". My experience is this is true. Most of the problem is that we can try too hard where all that is needed is to just believe.
The second is to ask what is it where you find you can't believe in God? I mean... Ok. Do you believe that the earth and everything was made by and through a creator? (Take a look outside at what you see and ask yourself this).
There is an area that I can see you may have conflict in that God said he made two genders and you find yourself non binary which causes you to question along the lines of "God must be wrong"... But the question to ask is "If God just made two genders, then what happened?" Then one will find out the results of lucifer and his efforts to take mankind away from God. This does not mean that anyone non binary has specifically done anything wrong as in Gods eyes sin is an act that starts with a thought, and who has not sinned in one way, form or another? Most binary people sin sexually! Mankind has been infected with the virus of sin, and you will find that by reading the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only true and effective vaccine!

One thing which differs with true Christianity and false Christianity which is a religion rather then a faith (There is a big difference) is that with the true form of Christianity it is all based on faith and not force. False Christianity tries to force people to convert. God will not accept that because God wants people to freely love him as God is love. Forcing people to become Christians turns their hearts away from God and they enter into a religious system that does nothing for them and is perpetuated by a religious drive where it operates like a machine without God.

God loves YOU. He does not want you to enter into a religious machine. He wants to walk with YOU.

Jesus made the way to connect with God.

This is the whole key to Christianity in its simpliest form.


It is totally your choice if you want to walk with God or not, and this is the same for everyone. You are free to chose. God has given you the freedom to chose.

Any religion under any name that denies you the choice and tries to use force to get you to convert does not come from God.

I just don't believe in God or any other deity, I guess? I just don't believe that any one entity purposely created the universe or controls it. That's never made sense to me and I've been atheist since I was 11. I don't really desire to be religious either, I just thought I'd give Christianity another shot around 17-18 because people in my family are pushy about me needing to be a Christian. I'm over that though and don't care what they think.


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


HeroOfHyrule
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29 Jul 2021, 2:14 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
[continued]

I suspect you'd find it's mostly theists who say atheism is a religion. I looked into it recently, and got the impression they do that so they can call us hypocrites for having a "faith" ourselves while claiming their faith to be nothing more than saying you know something that you don't know. Personally, I don't see it as faith because I accept it's logically impossible to disprove the existence of such a vague notion as God.

Some of them, though, still insist there's no such thing as an agnostic. There's also a notion in Romans I that we're deliberately ignoring some supposed proof of Christianity that's staring us in the face, though they never really explain quite what this proof looks like, and I certainly never saw it. They sometimes cite things like the "watchmaker" analogy, which has been plausibly criticised, and of course analogy isn't proof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Criticism

I have noticed that it's often theists. People in my family try to assert that I do have religious beliefs due to having the belief that there isn't a God or whatever, but I really don't and I don't get how that correlates or even makes sense.

I'd like to add that I don't care if other people are religious or believe in God, I just personally don't, don't desire to, and am happy enough not doing so.


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


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29 Jul 2021, 2:25 pm

Like Angelrho I liked the rigidity of Christianity, I liked the routine of church. I think it's because my parents are so capricious and flighty. I felt like I never had solid ground to stand on.

The funny thing is I decided to get into Christianity as a teenager coming from a non-religious background, but the teenagers I met at church were finding who they were away from their parents in a different way to me. I found that really strange. I understand now looking back that they were experimenting with their growing freedom whereas I wanted some solidity and structure. I didn't make a lot of friends.

I honestly think it helped me with my social skills and empathy too. Getting into group discussions about how Jesus showed empathy and concern for others made me think about relating to others. I think if I hadn't gone down that path I would have become a lot more smug and pretentious, even though I still am a little bit... I really think I would have been worse. It knocked my harsh corners off.

Edit, by strange, I mean it was a surprise. I was trying my best to learn a load of new things and trying to be more "Christian" and fit in at church, but they knew all that stuff already and were bored of it and wanted to talk about other things and didn't care about fitting in because they had always been there.



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29 Jul 2021, 3:00 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".



Two aspects that I can point you in the right direction here. The first is that if it is hard going, there is something wrong. This is my experience as Jesus said "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". My experience is this is true. Most of the problem is that we can try too hard where all that is needed is to just believe.
The second is to ask what is it where you find you can't believe in God? I mean... Ok. Do you believe that the earth and everything was made by and through a creator? (Take a look outside at what you see and ask yourself this).
There is an area that I can see you may have conflict in that God said he made two genders and you find yourself non binary which causes you to question along the lines of "God must be wrong"... But the question to ask is "If God just made two genders, then what happened?" Then one will find out the results of lucifer and his efforts to take mankind away from God. This does not mean that anyone non binary has specifically done anything wrong as in Gods eyes sin is an act that starts with a thought, and who has not sinned in one way, form or another? Most binary people sin sexually! Mankind has been infected with the virus of sin, and you will find that by reading the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only true and effective vaccine!

One thing which differs with true Christianity and false Christianity which is a religion rather then a faith (There is a big difference) is that with the true form of Christianity it is all based on faith and not force. False Christianity tries to force people to convert. God will not accept that because God wants people to freely love him as God is love. Forcing people to become Christians turns their hearts away from God and they enter into a religious system that does nothing for them and is perpetuated by a religious drive where it operates like a machine without God.

God loves YOU. He does not want you to enter into a religious machine. He wants to walk with YOU.

Jesus made the way to connect with God.

This is the whole key to Christianity in its simpliest form.


It is totally your choice if you want to walk with God or not, and this is the same for everyone. You are free to chose. God has given you the freedom to chose.

Any religion under any name that denies you the choice and tries to use force to get you to convert does not come from God.

I just don't believe in God or any other deity, I guess? I just don't believe that any one entity purposely created the universe or controls it. That's never made sense to me and I've been atheist since I was 11. I don't really desire to be religious either, I just thought I'd give Christianity another shot around 17-18 because people in my family are pushy about me needing to be a Christian. I'm over that though and don't care what they think.


Ok. Fair enough.



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29 Jul 2021, 3:01 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Like Angelrho I liked the rigidity of Christianity, I liked the routine of church. I think it's because my parents are so capricious and flighty. I felt like I never had solid ground to stand on.

The funny thing is I decided to get into Christianity as a teenager coming from a non-religious background, but the teenagers I met at church were finding who they were away from their parents in a different way to me. I found that really strange. I understand now looking back that they were experimenting with their growing freedom whereas I wanted some solidity and structure. I didn't make a lot of friends.

I honestly think it helped me with my social skills and empathy too. Getting into group discussions about how Jesus showed empathy and concern for others made me think about relating to others. I think if I hadn't gone down that path I would have become a lot more smug and pretentious, even though I still am a little bit... I really think I would have been worse. It knocked my harsh corners off.

Edit, by strange, I mean it was a surprise. I was trying my best to learn a load of new things and trying to be more "Christian" and fit in at church, but they knew all that stuff already and were bored of it and wanted to talk about other things and didn't care about fitting in because they had always been there.


Stability. Some logic to stand on. An anchor. A grounding.



ToughDiamond
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29 Jul 2021, 3:18 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't know if there is any specific religion that's "more suitable" for people with ASD. I'm personally an atheist, and some people consider atheism a "religion", but I don't think it is? I'm not religious at all which is why I'm atheist.

I did try to read the Bible and give Christianity another shot, but I didn't agree with or believe most of what I read, and can't really get myself to believe in "God".



Two aspects that I can point you in the right direction here. The first is that if it is hard going, there is something wrong. This is my experience as Jesus said "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". My experience is this is true. Most of the problem is that we can try too hard where all that is needed is to just believe........

Looks like you're suggesting the impossible.

EDIT: Sorry, the matter is already resolved I see. Didn't know that when I posted.



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29 Jul 2021, 3:34 pm

I certainly can't speak for the collective 'Us' but I am Buddhist and attend a Zen center via Zoom every morning for meditation and a short teaching (5 minutes or less). It works so much better for me than the Abrahamic religion bequeathed to me by my parents.

The things that makes Zen such a good fit for me is that:

1. It can be practiced anywhere, at any time - no congregation, no sangha, no group required.
2. It values experience over dogma and beliefs.
3. There is no God to worship.



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29 Jul 2021, 4:07 pm

Christianity in its natural state is far closer to Zen than Church Christianity is.

That could be why Kierkegaard found readers in Japan before he did in Europe.

Im not saying this makes Christianity suitable for us,

Just more so than the Churchy version.