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Tross
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20 Sep 2021, 2:11 pm

I was thinking of starting a conversation about the situation with anti-vax/anti-maskers here in Canada, but let's be honest; this is probably a much more global issue than it should be. All the same, I'll open by discussing the situation where I live, because it's become a real problem.

The anti-vax crowd has taken to blocking hospitals, and even storming schools. That's just how morally reprehensible they've become. I've heard opinions and even read articles that suggest that these people just feel as though their voices aren't being heard and we need to treat their concerns as valid while politely providing more accurate information than what they've been reading. From a logical and humanistic standpoint, yeah, that makes perfect sense and I agree wholeheartedly.

That said, where do these people get off thinking their stupid agenda is more important than children's education, let alone, the ability for life-saving ambulances to get to and from hospitals? Heck, apparently they made children cry when three schools had to go into lockdown, two of which were elementary schools. I'm sorry, but screw these people. I've never been less inclined to listen to someone's "concerns". If they have time for internet banality, they have the time to do their part to help their society move past this pandemic.

Apparently both federal and provincial governments are looking to enact laws forbidding protests in certain places like hospitals and schools (the former will likely depend on how tonight's vote goes). As far as I'm concerned, those laws can't come soon enough as we're sure to get a lot more peace and quiet if people who do these things end up in prison. At the very least, I'm glad they're barred from most public places now.

To be fair, I have no issue with people who don't want to get vaccinated, but recognize they're making a choice and do their part by staying away from public places. I know people like that, and I respect that. It's the people who are making scenes in public places that I have no patience for. Sure, they can be loud and obnoxious on streets and in front of legislatures if they want. Fine. It's irritating, but it's their right and they can just be ignored. They really should not interfere with healthcare or education though. Heck, they could do with an education all right. If they've accomplished anything, it's making me wish there was more segregation surrounding vaccines.

Ok, rant over. Anyways, how is the anti-vax/mask movement where you live, and what's your take on it?



Axeman
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20 Sep 2021, 2:58 pm

Fine them, jail them, and ban them from public places.



Fnord
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20 Sep 2021, 3:13 pm

Tross wrote:
What to do with anti-vax/anti-maskers...
Just ignore them.  Those who do not come to their senses will likely die.  Either way, the problem will solve itself.



Tross
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20 Sep 2021, 3:26 pm

Axeman wrote:
Fine them, jail them, and ban them from public places.
I'm glad government policy seems to be on track to enforce all of the above. Still, it can't come soon enough, I'm sure it won't be as consistent or well-enforced as it ought to be, and it will likely only be in select regions (one of which I thankfully live in), but it's a start.
Fnord wrote:
Tross wrote:
What to do with anti-vax/anti-maskers...
Just ignore them.  Those who do not come to their senses will likely die.  Either way, the problem will solve itself.
Ouch, and here I was thinking my view would come off as kind of harsh. The death part aside, ignoring the behaviour or enacting the necessary punishment where needed is probably the best course of action, especially when considering things from an ABA standpoint.

If the actions of these people stops leading to them gaining what they want, and also, if the consequences end up actually being negative, perhaps the behaviour will eventually decrease, if not stop altogether. We as individuals and as a society need to be firm and consistent though in order for that end to be achieved. If only the whole pandemic wasn't politicized... :roll:



Fnord
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20 Sep 2021, 3:48 pm

Tross wrote:
...
Fnord wrote:
Tross wrote:
What to do with anti-vax/anti-maskers...
Just ignore them.  Those who do not come to their senses will likely die.  Either way, the problem will solve itself.
Ouch, and here I was thinking my view would come off as kind of harsh. The death part aside, ignoring the behaviour or enacting the necessary punishment where needed is probably the best course of action, especially when considering things from an ABA standpoint.

If the actions of these people stops leading to them gaining what they want, and also, if the consequences end up actually being negative, perhaps the behaviour will eventually decrease, if not stop altogether. We as individuals and as a society need to be firm and consistent though in order for that end to be achieved. If only the whole pandemic wasn't politicized... :roll:
Here is something else to consider: Most people who believe all the conspiracy theories about the covid vaccines (which they refuse to get), wearing face masks (which they refuse to do), and avoiding crowded public events (which they also refuse to do) also seem to believe the conspiracy theories about stolen elections, false-flag rallies, cannibalistic paedophiles running pizza parlours, and so forth.

The Darwin Effect may eventually diminish their numbers far enough that they do not have any significant influence on upcoming elections.

In other words, those who wanted to make America
 white  great again may literally be a dying breed.



Tim_Tex
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20 Sep 2021, 7:21 pm

Axeman wrote:
Fine them, jail them, and ban them from public places.


Agreed


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20 Sep 2021, 8:45 pm

Shun them like they have the plague.


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DW_a_mom
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21 Sep 2021, 1:46 am

I'm in the place of figuring out how to live in peace with those who have very different beliefs and practices. I'll probably never drop the sales pitch, but if it doesn't work, I move to the next step. I am very self-protective in public because there is no way to know who is vaccinated, and I personally prefer that everyone mask when either indoors or close to each other outside. I don't eat indoors in restaurants anymore; only outside or take out. I am installing an air cleaner in my office and wearing a mask because I share space with someone who is not vaccinated. I work from home more than in the office as another self-protective measure.

I think the "house rules" concept will be of growing importance, assuming people can buy into it. Know what the rules are for a location, and decide if you are comfortable with them. If not, don't go. If you do go, comply.


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Nades
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21 Sep 2021, 2:17 am

Net getting vaccinated is stupid. Not wearing a mask while also refusing the vaccine is even more stupid.

Getting the vaccine and still wearing a mask is equally stupid unless the aim of the game is to turn everyone's immune system into a shriveled husk of what it once was.

As far as I'm concerned the pandemic is over now for most of the western world. Everyone who might have been vulnerable to the virus has now been offered their vaccine and the vaccine centers near me have now started to close. There is nothing more that can be done and the limit of what science can do has been reached.

That's my two cents.



DW_a_mom
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21 Sep 2021, 2:38 am

Nades wrote:
Getting the vaccine and still wearing a mask is equally stupid unless the aim of the game is to turn everyone's immune system into a shriveled husk of what it once was.


Where I live we have the delta variant, and while the vaccine reduces odds you will get the virus to 1/4 and the odds that you will hospitalized if you do to 1/10, those numbers are not zero. Vaccine effectiveness also wears off over time and not everyone is being offered the boosters (I am not, for example).

I can't risk that 1/4 odds of bringing a breakthrough infection to my mother, who is over 90 and very frail, and staying away or asking her to mask when visiting her is no longer an option. So I have to make a choice on where to lay the odds. Honestly, I get annoyed when people suggest that a carefully researched, considered and weighed decision such as mine is stupid. You can never know all the circumstances in someone else's life.


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Nades
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21 Sep 2021, 3:45 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Nades wrote:
Getting the vaccine and still wearing a mask is equally stupid unless the aim of the game is to turn everyone's immune system into a shriveled husk of what it once was.


Where I live we have the delta variant, and while the vaccine reduces odds you will get the virus to 1/4 and the odds that you will hospitalized if you do to 1/10, those numbers are not zero. Vaccine effectiveness also wears off over time and not everyone is being offered the boosters (I am not, for example).

I can't risk that 1/4 odds of bringing a breakthrough infection to my mother, who is over 90 and very frail, and staying away or asking her to mask when visiting her is no longer an option. So I have to make a choice on where to lay the odds. Honestly, I get annoyed when people suggest that a carefully researched, considered and weighed decision such as mine is stupid. You can never know all the circumstances in someone else's life.


As a collective whole, it's a poor decision. On an individual case by case basis it will vary, however at such an advanced age there are a lot of viruses that might cause her problems.

I don't want people to utterly fixate on one virus (which they clearly are) while forgetting other viruses are around waiting for everyone's immunity to drop enough to cause a sudden surge. This has been a concern to the UK with flu.



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21 Sep 2021, 4:17 am

Leave them alone and mind your business.


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TheRobotLives
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21 Sep 2021, 4:32 am

Seems like the same problem of atheists.

How to get them to become believers?


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naturalplastic
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21 Sep 2021, 6:53 am

duplicate post.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 21 Sep 2021, 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Sep 2021, 7:04 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The problem is that that decision effects the rest of us too- in too many ways.

People do worry atheists affect others.

Most obviously, the fear that atheists will draw others away from a GOD, or an atheist will expose someone to an un-Godly lifestyle.

There's also the consequences of not following God's law that affects others.


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21 Sep 2021, 7:12 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The problem is that that decision effects the rest of us too- in too many ways.

People do worry atheists affect others.

Most obviously, the fear that atheists will draw others away from a GOD, or an atheist will expose someone to an un-Godly lifestyle.

There's also the consequences of not following God's law that affects others.


Atheist here. I don't try converting anyone away from whatever they believe. My wife is Christian.