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Jakki
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23 Sep 2021, 11:07 am

uhm... btw , polio is still a issue in some parts of the world. Polio is,a very visible disease as it progresses . So people witnessed the long term effects . Smallpox was evident on the skin.
But Covid is alittle less obvious and people with compromised immune function generally can die quickly . So perhaps the less visible it is . People do not come around as readily. ?
But now the government involvement has politicized it. So you get people some people getting hardnosed about getting this covid injection. The media and government has make this,a very devisive society . By virtue of the constant presentation of fierce independence in movies and the like

And creating a situation of distrust of authority figures, throughout the history of the US gov.
By the very actions of the government , whom we supposably elect to represent us. And protect our way of lfe .
This government has become very incongruent in how it deems to treat its citizens over its history.


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funeralxempire
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23 Sep 2021, 11:35 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Also, progressives outnumber social democrats who outnumber democratic socialists who outnumber libertarian socialists who outnumber tankies. The tankies aren't much of a threat politically, they don't have the numbers to be meaningful.


Psst! It's the same on the right, the actual Nazi adjacent types are a tiny, tiny fringe that gets disproportionate attention because it's in the interests of others to act as if they're a real threat.

At least some of these "Nazi adjacent types" are indeed a terrorist threat, even if they are not a political "threat" in the sense of being likely to attain political dominance.

There are also other kinds of right wing extremists that are more influential than "Nazi adjacent types." For example, the number of Alex Jones-style grand conspiracy ideology-believers has grown quite a bit over the years. Also, John Birch Society-influenced religious right wingers have long been king-makers in the Bible Belt (though not in your neck of the woods).


I agree but want to add we all might disagree on what exactly counts as Nazi adjacent. Some folks might insist dominionists, boogaloo bois, the militia movement, Q Anon, 3%ers, etc aren't Nazi adjacent, many would insist they are. Ultimately that argument is a distraction because they're also violent extremist movements on their own regardless of how closely their ideologies mirror that of other violent, extreme right blocs.



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23 Sep 2021, 12:59 pm

But it seems that Americans going at each other in such an extreme way like they are is kind of juvenile isn't it? I mean people say that the US is the best country in the world, and so many foreigners want to move there, so why do Americans think themselves think it's so bad? Is it a case of people making too big of a deal out of first world problems?



kraftiekortie
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23 Sep 2021, 3:29 pm

Polio would still exist today in many “western” places.



auntblabby
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23 Sep 2021, 6:37 pm

ironpony wrote:
But it seems that Americans going at each other in such an extreme way like they are is kind of juvenile isn't it? I mean people say that the US is the best country in the world, and so many foreigners want to move there, so why do Americans think themselves think it's so bad? Is it a case of people making too big of a deal out of first world problems?

you are right, it IS juvenile. we have citizens who refuse to get along with others unlike themselves. we have citizens who supremely value their own right to swing their germy fists no matter where other peoples' noses are.



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24 Sep 2021, 6:25 am

ironpony wrote:
I mean people say that the US is the best country in the world, ...

To me this is sort of the crux of the problem. America may be a good country or even a great country, but why must it be the BEST? Try convincing a Chinese person to support this premise, for example. This causes people to resent the US just as people resent Apple, for example.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2021, 7:43 am

I do realize that polio is still prevalent in some parts of the "Third World."



magz
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24 Sep 2021, 7:50 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do realize that polio is still prevalent in some parts of the "Third World."

And, AFAIK, they do have their anti-vaxxers :(


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kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2021, 8:03 am

Imagine if there was a strong anti-vaxx element when the Diphtheria/Pertussis/Tetanus vaccine was developed?



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24 Sep 2021, 9:06 am

No one has complained about the rabies vaccine ever.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2021, 9:26 am

In NYC, as far as teachers are concerned, if you "don't get vaxxed, you get the axe."



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24 Sep 2021, 9:36 am

Well a lot of people refuse to get vaccines for other things such as the flu shot for example, so how come people respect people's rights when it comes to not getting other vaccines, but covid is the one exception to the rule so far? Why has covid turned political, unlike other viruses? What the covid virus should have really been named was the political virus, since it seems to be different from all other viruses in that way.



kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2021, 9:57 am

I believe it's because of the ACTUALITY of COVID, plus the POTENTIAL of COVID as far has great harm is concerned if we don't get vaxxed.

I believe had people refused the polio vaccine, there would have been a backlash against those people, and there would have been vaccine mandates and the whole nine yards as well.

COVID is about 5 times more lethal than most flus. And COVID causes multisystem problems which aren't usually found within those with influenza.

It is not "just the flu" for the approximately 20% of people who get severe symptoms from COVID.



Jakki
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24 Sep 2021, 10:39 am

Most public schools in the US already have vaccine mandates for many existing diseases .And yes there are large groups of people whom do not believe in any vaccines based on the religious beliefs.
Amish and mennonites generally have their own schools and are a tight knit groups .


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kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2021, 10:48 am

That's right.

NYC Public Schools, and both colleges I had attended and worked in, have a vast "vaccine mandate."

This mandate is absolute, with very very few exceptions.



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24 Sep 2021, 11:07 am

ironpony wrote:
Well a lot of people refuse to get vaccines for other things such as the flu shot for example, so how come people respect people's rights when it comes to not getting other vaccines, but covid is the one exception to the rule so far? Why has covid turned political, unlike other viruses? What the covid virus should have really been named was the political virus, since it seems to be different from all other viruses in that way.


Because COVID not only has a much higher hospitalization and mortality rate (even within younger populations)-- it has a higher rate of transmission. ~5% of those infected will require critical care. ~15-20% of those infected are severe cases that often require hospitalization. The effects of those who have been infected with COVID can be long lasting (e.g. long haulers, those with permanent lung/organ damage, etc). Even in the US, our medical facilities are not equipped to deal with this sort of demand.

kraftiekortie wrote:
It is not "just the flu" for the approximately 20% of people who get severe symptoms from COVID.

It's also not 'just the flu' for those who had "mild infections" and went on to be longhaulers. I had the alpha variant in March 2020--and it disrupted my life for 16 months after.


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Last edited by Flown on 24 Sep 2021, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.