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ironpony
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26 Sep 2021, 11:58 pm

But don't republicans ever think they may need medical care if something bad happens to them or their loved ones? Why do they not want that option, or what is the advantage for them of not having it?



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27 Sep 2021, 12:11 am

ironpony wrote:
But don't republicans ever think they may need medical care if something bad happens to them or their loved ones? Why do they not want that option, or what is the advantage for them of not having it?


Most have medical insurance (and, thus, access to medical care) through their workplaces, same as most Americans.

What they don’t want to think about are the Americans who fall through the cracks and don’t have insurance through their employers. In most companies, for example, you have to work at least 30 hours a week for that company in order to qualify for coverage. Gig workers are not usually covered. And so on. What started in the 1940’s or so as a way to attract workers without raising wages and inflation has become this intractable behemoth that is creating all sorts of new and different issues. I could write a book on it, but I don’t have time. I think it is difficult for anyone not in this country to understand because no other country has a private insurance - employment based system like we do.


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27 Sep 2021, 12:33 am

i realize medicin
e for all is a hot topic in the US.. but quite honestly have had to endure much medical care in this fine country of ours and it would be nice . If we all had equal healthcare. but it just isnt the way it is in reality . These people portraying themselves as doctors etc. are serious practicioners of quackery .Except for the very basic needs . Have seen things you would not consider legal performed by people with medical licenses. It seems the current logic is to maintain people in a sick state so they can go on padding their wallets. And seeming justifying exaggerating peoples misery .
They do not practice curative medicine but rather only treat symptomatic medicine. It seens if no other reason except to justify their own existence and are taught that from medical school onwards.


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ironpony
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27 Sep 2021, 12:54 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But don't republicans ever think they may need medical care if something bad happens to them or their loved ones? Why do they not want that option, or what is the advantage for them of not having it?


Most have medical insurance (and, thus, access to medical care) through their workplaces, same as most Americans.

What they don’t want to think about are the Americans who fall through the cracks and don’t have insurance through their employers. In most companies, for example, you have to work at least 30 hours a week for that company in order to qualify for coverage. Gig workers are not usually covered. And so on. What started in the 1940’s or so as a way to attract workers without raising wages and inflation has become this intractable behemoth that is creating all sorts of new and different issues. I could write a book on it, but I don’t have time. I think it is difficult for anyone not in this country to understand because no other country has a private insurance - employment based system like we do.


Oh I see. Why is this such an impossible problem for democrats to bring in socialized health care, like other countries though? I mean the way medical insurance is run is not an actual law as I understand, so if it's not an actual law, can the presidency get rid of it technically then?



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27 Sep 2021, 1:25 am

ironpony wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, well I didn't think people cared about what democrats did since there is still a lot of dissatisfaction of course.

Why is it so complicated though? I mean Americans have a free police service for example, or free firefighters service, or free military defense, without having to send people who call on them large fees. So why does the medical establishment have to do it compared to other services?

that is a very good question that i've not found any satisfactory answers as to the GOP's moral justification for making poor people suffer.


Oh okay I see. Do the democrats have an answer why they cannot fix this and run the medical establishment, like they would a police force for example?

the democrats mean well but are largely inept, clueless about how to fight effectively with the mercenary crowd of the right wing who always fight dirty and fight to win at all costs. the dems need to grow a spine, get mean and hard-minded, decide where on the spectrum they want all members to be, and then act on it. above all they have to stop trying to be all things to all people. but they won't, and the general stupidity of the sheeple is no help at all. not enough 'muuricans realize that this is a winner-take-all system, that choosing the lesser of two evils is all this system is capable of.



Last edited by auntblabby on 27 Sep 2021, 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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27 Sep 2021, 1:27 am

Oh okay. Could the democrats bring in outside experts, to help bring in socialized healthcare?



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27 Sep 2021, 1:31 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Could the democrats bring in outside experts, to help bring in socialized healthcare?

that is what they've done for 3 decades now. no use. the GOP is the big block to progress in this country along with a largely uneducated electorate with a majority of low info voters who let GOP dog whistles distract them from the prize, or convince them to give up their american franchise and just stay home instead of doing what it takes to overcome organized GOP opposition and vote like their lives depended on it.



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27 Sep 2021, 1:34 am

auntblabby wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Could the democrats bring in outside experts, to help bring in socialized healthcare?

that is what they've done for 3 decades now. no use. the GOP is the big block to progress in this country along with a largely uneducated electorate with a majority of low info voters who let GOP dog whistles distract them from the prize, or convince them to give up their american franchise and just stay home instead of doing what it takes to overcome organized GOP opposition and vote like their lives depended on it.


Well you know how certain things like abortion for example vary, state by state? Is it the same with medical in the US, and it's more socialized depending on the state, or is it the exact same every state?



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27 Sep 2021, 1:37 am

Flown wrote:
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Undereducated in what way? Seems pretty straightforward to me. If you don't want kids don't have sex. Or get the pill.


It's not that black and white.

1) Not every woman is able to take the pill (I happen to be one of them) as they can cause serious health consequences, side effects, and even stroke in a portion of the population. Additionally, insurance does not cover birth control for many (access is an issue). Other protections have a chance of failing, and healthcare providers OFTEN refuse young women the opportunity for tubal ligation. I've had multiple friends try to have this procedure done and doctors refused on the grounds that "they might want children later". :x

2) The pill is NOT foolproof. There are several medications that can interact with the pill (rendering it useless), and an accidental skipped dose can potentially lead to an unplanned pregnancy. Used PERFECTLY, the pill is around 99% effective. On average (when one factors in human error), it is around 91% effective.

3) It is absolutely ridiculous to ask anyone to just "not have sex". You are talking about people in longterm relationships, marriages, etc.

4) Pregnancy can mean health complications and even death for some women. (Some women don't even know they have these health issues UNTIL they get pregnant). It doesn't mean that these women should have to forgo intimacy as a result.


That makes sense but what about other means of protection other than the pill if health consequences are an issue?



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27 Sep 2021, 2:40 am

ironpony wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But don't republicans ever think they may need medical care if something bad happens to them or their loved ones? Why do they not want that option, or what is the advantage for them of not having it?


Most have medical insurance (and, thus, access to medical care) through their workplaces, same as most Americans.

What they don’t want to think about are the Americans who fall through the cracks and don’t have insurance through their employers. In most companies, for example, you have to work at least 30 hours a week for that company in order to qualify for coverage. Gig workers are not usually covered. And so on. What started in the 1940’s or so as a way to attract workers without raising wages and inflation has become this intractable behemoth that is creating all sorts of new and different issues. I could write a book on it, but I don’t have time. I think it is difficult for anyone not in this country to understand because no other country has a private insurance - employment based system like we do.


Oh I see. Why is this such an impossible problem for democrats to bring in socialized health care, like other countries though? I mean the way medical insurance is run is not an actual law as I understand, so if it's not an actual law, can the presidency get rid of it technically then?


The president does not have the power to unilaterally change how an entire private industry operates. That would be unconstitutional.

To deal with healthcare on a national level you would have to get a law passed through 3 separate chambers: the House (currently controlled by Democrats), the Senate (currently split evenly, BUT 60 votes (not 50) are needed to avoid a filibuster), AND the presidency. In other words, some 350-400 out of 600-700 elected representatives will have to all agree on the proposal.

That level of agreement on a single proposal is virtually impossible right now.

A few states have created state wide programs in an effort to insure all the residents in the state have a minimum level of coverage. It is easier to get passed on the smaller scale of a state level than on a national one, but there is a lot of lobbying against the idea from employers and insurance companies that don't like the complexity of having different rules in different states.

Also, socialism is a dirty word in the USA. Once the word socialized is attached to a program, it will die.

Going back to abortion, states are now trying to line up a supreme court fight over the right of a state to set its own limitations on the procedure. In the 1970's it was decided that laws preventing abortion in the first trimester were not constitutional. In that way, the federal government overrode the separate decisions and laws that had been made at the state level. However, the make up of the court has changed, and this court is likely to see it differently.

What is frustrating is that the same states that want to make abortion illegal also usually refuse to do anything to make sure their residents have access to affordable medical insurance and medical care. These are not the states that have taken on healthcare reform on their own. Texas, the state that brought the abortion issue back into current debate, has some of the worst health outcomes in the western world. Fewer people covered by insurance, fewer people able to afford medical care, less education on birth control, higher infant mortality, higher numbers of women who die in childbirth. It's a disgrace. To claim to care about unborn babies while perpetuating circumstances that lead to unacceptably high levels of childbirth deaths and infant deaths is hypocritical. Let's just say I do not understand the voters and the politics in states like Texas.

We're talking a level of political detail a whole lot of Americans have never bothered to learn or understand. I don't think you can expect to understand all the interconnecting issues through conversations on a message board.


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27 Sep 2021, 2:59 am

ironpony wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Could the democrats bring in outside experts, to help bring in socialized healthcare?

that is what they've done for 3 decades now. no use. the GOP is the big block to progress in this country along with a largely uneducated electorate with a majority of low info voters who let GOP dog whistles distract them from the prize, or convince them to give up their american franchise and just stay home instead of doing what it takes to overcome organized GOP opposition and vote like their lives depended on it.


Well you know how certain things like abortion for example vary, state by state? Is it the same with medical in the US, and it's more socialized depending on the state, or is it the exact same every state?

roe v. wade is running on fumes right now, and the GOP state crooks have their legal jets focused on blowing those fumes into the dustbin of history. so basically it is state-by-state now with the bible belt reverting to their misogynistic form.



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27 Sep 2021, 3:41 am

Nothing like living in a country that is progrezsing backwards.... :roll:


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27 Sep 2021, 3:42 am

i suspect if i were canadian i'd be far more proud of my nation than i am right now.



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27 Sep 2021, 6:35 am

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense but what about other means of protection other than the pill if health consequences are an issue?


The most affordable/accessible option would be condoms (I have to mention that more conservative areas in the US can make these harder to access though), but those can absolutely fail or be used incorrectly. Obviously some men will not know how to use them properly, and the failure rate/misuse rate is ~13-18%. Breakages aren't extremely common, but they do happen. Chances of a breakage can increase if the wrong lubricant is used (e.g. using oil based lubricants with latex condoms).

I'll also add:
I've known several men that have tricked women into thinking they had put a condom on when they hadn't.


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27 Sep 2021, 9:25 am

But can women use other means of protection though, that are outside of the mans hands more such as sponges or cervical caps?



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27 Sep 2021, 10:10 am

ironpony wrote:
But can women use other means of protection though, that are outside of the mans hands more such as sponges or cervical caps?


Sponges are not exactly effective (only ~75% effective at preventing pregnancy), and can come with a load of issues.
1) They may increase one's chance of STD (causes irritation of the
2) many women are sensitive/allergic to the spermicide. Spermicide can burn us!
3) They put a woman at risk of TSS (toxic shock syndrome)
4) They can cause urinary tract and yeast infections
5) If a woman has already had 1 or more children, they are even less effective
6) They are difficult to both insert and remove (potentially leading to accidental pregnancy and/or TSS)

Additionally, many brands of the sponge have been discontinued in the US. I think there is one brand that can be bought online, but they run at $5 each.

Cervical caps are at around 80% effective when used properly. Problems with them:
1) Your doctor has to fit you for one. You have to access to/money for that kind of healthcare. I'm honestly not even sure if insurance would cover this procedure.
2) Reactions to spermicide as listed above.
3) Position must be SPOT ON for them to be effective. They can easily dislodge during sex.
4) It takes time to carry out #3, which may ruin the entire mood if planning for coitus
5) There is a risk of TSS (especially considering the cap must be left in for 6 hours after sex)
6) They can cause cervicitis or bladder infections

I think it is important to note that anti-abortion groups' and conservative politicians' attacks on Planned Parenthood are cutting the flow of free contraceptives and affordable reproductive healthcare.

My points being:
1) Birth control is not perfect.
2) Accidents can and will happen.
3) Not everyone has access to all forms of birth control.
4) Not everyone is able to use all forms of birth control.
5) Women don't always have a choice in getting pregnant (rape, partners who lie about using contraceptives, oral birth control failure, human error, etc)
5) This is not a black and white topic. It is a complex topic with infinite gray areas.
6) We don't know every story (every shade of gray), and it is not our place to intervene with a woman's reproductive healthcare.


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