Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.

Page 31 of 41 [ 647 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 ... 41  Next

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

27 Sep 2021, 11:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Pepe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
This is where white fragility comes in, when racism is pointed out, instead of learning about it, they get defensive and act like they have been attacked and insulted and bullied.


The way Isabella, Slyfox and I were attacked and bullied, you mean?


It's a common tactic - It's "white fragility" (or you're an "Uncle T**", "white-aligned", etc) if you don't agree with what is claimed as being the "right" opinion - To people who use (or condone) such terms, the only possible reason for others not subscribing to the "right" opinion is that they are "racist", "race traitors", etc. with no consideration given to the possibility that their "right" opinion may not actually be "right" (or appropriate), or that others may have better\more relevent\more informed opinions\views on the subject than their own.


The use of the race card strategy to silence discussion was (an is if still used) cheap and degrading to both the people it was used against and the people who used it.
It is anti-intellectual and a haven for those who lack the intellectual capacity to formulate a good defence of their position.

Brictoria wrote:
These are simply bullying tactics designed to force compliance with the "right" opinion through the use of shaming techniques. Rather than providing valid reasoning to support what they wish to have believed and seeking to reach a mutual understanding through conversation, they instead seek to avoid having their opinion subjected to any form of scrutiny or critisism: Only a weak opinion\belief\theory needs to be sheltered from critisism\scrutiny - A strong one can stand on it's own.


You can say that again, sister. :mrgreen:

The saying:
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen", comes to mind. 8)


Perhaps the right should be asking why the so called race card has been used against them so successfully, if the right didn't have an atrocious record regarding race?


I have seen, on many occasions, where the race card was invalidly used in an argument.
It was purely a power play to stifle/scuttle free discussion because that side was losing a debate.
All it did was destroy their credibility.
It is embarrassing to the dummies people who use it that way.
Not many do that these days, for obvious reasons. 8)


And yet there have been plenty of times when racial discrimination has been legitimately called out. And it's always been the right that's been guilty of perpetrating it. Voter suppression definitely has a racial dimension, even though the right denies it up and down. Rolling back civil rights protections can't be seen as anything but racist.


Incorrect.
I have come across examples of racial discrimination from the left.

There are many examples of job advertisements discriminating against whities, btw.
The difference is, when the progressive side of politics does it, it is OK.


And yet the vast majority of jobs go to whites. So, there's an attempt to hire people of color, who have far too often gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to employment. I hardly think droves of whites are left without employment because of such occasional policies.


Correct me if I am wrong, but there are more whities than coloured people in America.
But, yes, America has a bigger problem with racism than Australia.

But remember what you said?
Quote:
And it's always been the right that's been guilty of perpetrating it.

You made a binary that it is always those on the right that are involved in racial discrimination.
I really only had to present one example to invalidate that black & white statement. 8)



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

27 Sep 2021, 11:27 pm

^^^
It has been the right. That's not to say all conservatives or Republicans are racists, but racism seems to be the evil spirit haunting right wing politics. Denial that racism is real, or that whites are more discriminated against than non-whites, IS the new racism. Setting aside some jobs for people of color who haven't been given a fair shake is hardly racism.
Nothing binary about it; just an observation.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,609
Location: the island of defective toy santas

27 Sep 2021, 11:49 pm

Pepe wrote:
Virtually everyone is racist tribalist. There is also "classism", as an example. It is part of our genetic coding as a result of the evolutionary process. 8)

classism stinks worse than racism. we are supposed to be better than that. we are supposed to evolve towards better.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

27 Sep 2021, 11:51 pm

Pepe wrote:
But remember what you said?
Quote:
And it's always been the right that's been guilty of perpetrating it.

You made a binary that it is always those on the right that are involved in racial discrimination.
I really only had to present one example to invalidate that black & white statement. 8)


There's also the propensity for those on the left to weaponise a person's race against them, or to use racial slurs (as occurred in this thread) about people of certain races should they not follow the belief their "masters" on the left expect them to[1], which would likely fit under the heading of "racial discrimination"... And certainly fits under the heading of racism.

[1] For example:
Quote:
if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

28 Sep 2021, 12:49 am

I find a lot of this snipping inaccurate and unhelpful.

Realistically, people stick with what they know. For most people, that has always been people who look like them. Embracing the beauty of the world's diversity is a process. Learning how to do it and talk about it instead of following our tribal instincts takes effort. Anyone who isn't trying is likely adding to the problem.

None of that bears a political label.

A brief and over-generalized summary of the US political history: After the civil war, it was pretty clear that most openly racist parts of the country made a home inside the Democratic party. For around 100 years racism was baked into the policies and politics of Southern Democrats. At the same time, the Republican party was enjoying an ideological shift to the right. By the time the civil rights acts were passed in the 1960s, southerners interested in continuing racist policies were shifting from the Democratic party to the Republican party. The same pockets of population responsible for Jim Crow laws have been making their home inside the Republican party since the mid-1960s. It is the Republican party that will use racist messaging to scare voters and draw them into supporting conservative "law and order" policies.

That history, when combined with modern day actions of the Republican party, is why liberals consider the party (but not necessarily individual members) to be perpetuating racism.
Modern actions of concern, from memory (I don't have the exact stats at my fingers):
1. Support of racist gerrymandering to reduce the effect of black voices.
2. Voter suppression in states like Texas, where the reality of their one per district ballot drop box limitation clearly favors sparse "white" counties over densely populated "black" counties. The Supreme Court when eliminating the voting rights act approvals agreed that the policies in question were clearly benefiting one group over the other, they just didn't think it justified continued oversight by the federal government.
3. The continual use of racist imaging to drive home conservative points and advertise conservative candidates.
4. The self-identification of openly racist groups.

Liberals haven't had clean hands, either. There is a bad habit of prioritizing virtue signaling over effective action, and a history of paternalistic policies that came more from a white savior complex than an effective desire to create equality. Plus some valid arguments have been made here that some liberal policies have done much more harm than good when it comes to achieving equality and, worse, that it could have been intentional. Intentional or not, us liberals have to own some of the systemic problems.

And the Democratic party as a political party ... well, shifting of populations or not, it cannot run away from its history.

I think we should all be willing to listen when anyone says that an action or position is racist. Because this is a PROCESS, and none of have it right yet, or it wouldn't still be an issue.

Note that I try to be very careful to call out only the ACTION as racist, not the person. Everyone makes mistakes, and none of us are experts at knowing what is inside someone else's heart.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Last edited by DW_a_mom on 28 Sep 2021, 3:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2021, 2:23 am

auntblabby wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Virtually everyone is racist tribalist. There is also "classism", as an example. It is part of our genetic coding as a result of the evolutionary process. 8)

classism stinks worse than racism. we are supposed to be better than that. we are supposed to evolve towards better.


Firstly, who says?

The irony is, it is precisely evolution that has installed tribalism into the humane human psyche.
Look at China and its "might makes right" mentality.
Read Lord of the Flies.
Some people want to deny the existence of Freud's "ID", but you can't just wish it away.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2021, 3:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is no use when the other side refuses to come clean.


A rather ironic statement, since there is fault on either side, here. 8)

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is no use when the other side refuses to come clean.


I know. I gotta still speak the truth.


With my permission.
I need to vet what *you* think the Truth is.

The Oracle of Truth has spoken. 8)


What my heart and mind says it is.


All people think they are "objective", but some people are more objective than others. <oink> 8)

The thing is, hyperpartisanship exists in part due to a desire for personal meaning.
It is like being in luv.
People tend to overlook the faults of the people they are in luv with.

So too, people tend to overlook the faults of the political party they are committed to.
"Gott mit uns", or my country right or wrong, sort of thing. 8)

Image

Image



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,609
Location: the island of defective toy santas

28 Sep 2021, 3:22 am

if we don't evolve towards better, we are just wasting time on earth then, it is like going to school determined not to learn a GD thing.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,149

28 Sep 2021, 3:29 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Realistically, people stick with what they know. For most people, that has always been people who look like them. Embracing the beauty of the world's diversity is a process. Learning how to do it and talk about it instead of following our tribal instincts takes effort. Anyone who isn't trying is likely adding to the problem.
None of that bears a political label.

Nobody on the left as far as I know advocates cultural disintegration, I think there is slight nuance here in that one can choose to be with people they want to associate with while concurrently being conformable and tolerant with other cultures. Multiculturalism is a mosaic not necessarily a melting pot but I think you'll find many on the right keep changing the goal posts saying multiculturalism is "bad" and unpatriotic but then they put their hand up and say "no" we don't to dilute our European heritage either.

DW_a_mom wrote:
That history, when combined with modern day actions of the Republican party, is why liberals consider the party to be racist.
Modern actions of concern, from memory (I don't have the exact stats at my fingers):
1. Support of racist gerrymandering to reduce the effect of black voices.
2. Voter suppression in states like Texas, where the reality of their one per district ballot drop box limitation clearly favors sparse "white" counties over densely populated "black" counties. The Supreme Court when eliminating the voting rights act approvals agreed that the policies in question were clearly benefiting one group over the other, they just didn't think it justified continued oversight by the federal government.
3. The continual use of racist imaging to drive home conservative points and advertise conservative candidates.
4. The self-identification of openly racist groups.


DW_a_mom wrote:
Liberals haven't had clean hands, either. There is a bad habit of prioritizing virtue signaling over effective action, and a history of paternalistic policies that came more from a white savior complex than an effective desire to create equality. Plus some valid arguments have been made here that some liberal policies have done much more harm than good when it comes to achieving equality and, worse, that it could have been intentional. Intentional or not, us liberals have to own some of the systemic problems.


Pointing out that progressives can be racist is like all well and good, but progressives were the ones who did all the hard work in making the world less evil. This is a work in progress but it takes two to tango and the right need to stop burying their hands in the sand when the word race is uttered and they aren't the ones uttering the word.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2021, 5:12 am

auntblabby wrote:
if we don't evolve towards better, we are just wasting time on earth then, it is like going to school determined not to learn a GD thing.


By George, I think she's got it. :mrgreen:



Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,363
Location: Tulsa, OK

28 Sep 2021, 8:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Realistically, people stick with what they know. For most people, that has always been people who look like them. Embracing the beauty of the world's diversity is a process. Learning how to do it and talk about it instead of following our tribal instincts takes effort. Anyone who isn't trying is likely adding to the problem.
None of that bears a political label.

Nobody on the left as far as I know advocates cultural disintegration, I think there is slight nuance here in that one can choose to be with people they want to associate with while concurrently being conformable and tolerant with other cultures. Multiculturalism is a mosaic not necessarily a melting pot but I think you'll find many on the right keep changing the goal posts saying multiculturalism is "bad" and unpatriotic but then they put their hand up and say "no" we don't to dilute our European heritage either.

DW_a_mom wrote:
That history, when combined with modern day actions of the Republican party, is why liberals consider the party to be racist.
Modern actions of concern, from memory (I don't have the exact stats at my fingers):
1. Support of racist gerrymandering to reduce the effect of black voices.
2. Voter suppression in states like Texas, where the reality of their one per district ballot drop box limitation clearly favors sparse "white" counties over densely populated "black" counties. The Supreme Court when eliminating the voting rights act approvals agreed that the policies in question were clearly benefiting one group over the other, they just didn't think it justified continued oversight by the federal government.
3. The continual use of racist imaging to drive home conservative points and advertise conservative candidates.
4. The self-identification of openly racist groups.


DW_a_mom wrote:
Liberals haven't had clean hands, either. There is a bad habit of prioritizing virtue signaling over effective action, and a history of paternalistic policies that came more from a white savior complex than an effective desire to create equality. Plus some valid arguments have been made here that some liberal policies have done much more harm than good when it comes to achieving equality and, worse, that it could have been intentional. Intentional or not, us liberals have to own some of the systemic problems.


Pointing out that progressives can be racist is like all well and good, but progressives were the ones who did all the hard work in making the world less evil. This is a work in progress but it takes two to tango and the right need to stop burying their hands in the sand when the word race is uttered and they aren't the ones uttering the word.

Do some research on facts about the Progressive movement. You will be shocked at what you find.



Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,363
Location: Tulsa, OK

28 Sep 2021, 9:16 am

The "Progressives" and the American news media have done an excellent job of brainwashing people that the USA is a horrible, evil and racist country. Yet our southern border is filled with thousands of non-white people clamoring to get in.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

28 Sep 2021, 4:55 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The "Progressives" and the American news media have done an excellent job of brainwashing people that the USA is a horrible, evil and racist country. Yet our southern border is filled with thousands of non-white people clamoring to get in.


Telling the truth is not meant to create the perception that we are a horrible, evil and racist country. We tell the truth because we know and believe we can all do better. Conservatives would rather cover up past and current wrongs to pretend there is a perfection that never existed and can’t exist; to me, that is both dishonest and counterproductive. A parent points out a child’s mistakes so that they can learn and achieve their full potential, not so they will hate themselves. It is the same with a country. If you truly believe in something, you will want it to have the knowledge needed to do its best.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

28 Sep 2021, 5:55 pm

We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

28 Sep 2021, 7:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.


The problem is that portion of time before\leading up to "getting out of college and living in the real world" - What is it that causes people to believe something so strongly during that time period which is so quickly shown to be incorrect on leaving it, and why is this happening?



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

28 Sep 2021, 11:44 pm

Brictoria wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.


The problem is that portion of time before\leading up to "getting out of college and living in the real world" - What is it that causes people to believe something so strongly during that time period which is so quickly shown to be incorrect on leaving it, and why is this happening?


It is incorrect to assume that anyone flips 180 after graduating college. I would suggest that Kraftiekortie was exaggerating a little.

Having two young adults in my household (albeit no longer living here), I can say that the hormonal changes of youth tend to create a level of passion that can be extreme. Its the same passion that for ages drove fierce young fighters through battle, and young lovers into marriage. But like any flame, it burns its brightest at the moment the match is struck, then quickly mellows. IMHO we don't need any explanation beyond the fact that everything burns intensely for a while in that age range, before they gain a little more perspective.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Last edited by DW_a_mom on 29 Sep 2021, 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.