Defund vs. Re -allocate
19 Jan 2022, 6:00 pm
Do you really need something that obvious explained to you? Or are you just trolling?
Folks of all skin colors were shocked at the sight of the White cop killing the Black on TV.
Though they may have differed as to how to solve the problem.
You ARE aware that Whites CAN be sympathetic to Blacks when Black suffer at the hands of other Whites?
Also 70 percent of the nation is white, and only 12 percent are Black. So even if every single Black person holds opinion X, and only half of White people in the US hold the same opinion X, it may mean proportionately fewer White think X than do Blacks, but the absolute number of White who think X is going to be three times as many as the total number of Blacks that think X.
19 Jan 2022, 6:28 pm
Oh I see what you mean it's just the way it was worded before, it was suggested that white people were more into the defund movement than BLM, and I was wondering why that was.
But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.
19 Jan 2022, 6:48 pm
But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.
Well...the White folks in local legislatures who floated the defund idea across the land were overzealots, or wrong direction zealots, or like that IMO. And I agree with you that "defunding the police" is a bad idea, as well as being a really bad slogan (and our a Black ex POTUS was one of the first voices to advise against using the slogan).
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19 Jan 2022, 7:38 pm
I think that what some of the more reasonable "Defund the Police" folk envision is shifting some of the funding for police over to funding for social workers who can respond to incidents, for instance, of a mental health nature.
For instance, if someone has a public meltdown a police officer might not have adequate training to defuse the situation. Their training might lead them to treat it as someone disobeying police orders, etc.
And I think calling this movement "Defund the Police" is a really bad idea.
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19 Jan 2022, 8:39 pm
Well I think the problem with situations the police should not be handling is, why do people call the police in the wrong situations? Is it the people's fault then? Or should we make it a policy that the police do not have to respond to situations that is not right for them? But if they do this, then will important calls get missed and there is no way to tell, unless they respond to every call?
Another thing is, all this started when the police were called on George Floyd. But Floyd didn't have the police called on him because of mental health problems. He had the police called on him for passing counterfeit money, so why do these advocates bring mental health problems into this, when their defund goal is based on an event that was about conterfeit money the reason why the call was made?
19 Jan 2022, 9:35 pm
The thing is, the group who wants to abolish is tiny, a minority of a minority, while police abolition is politically toxic to broad swathes of the electorate, so pandering to the abolition crowd is political malpractice, jumping over a dollar to grab a nickel.
Again I'm only speculating, but possibly they think they can get the dollar and the nickel too? (I'm not saying they're correct, but possibly that's what they're thinking?)
I don't about how many people actually want to abolish the police, but it does seem to be trendy in some circles to say so, or just to say that cops are bad, like I recently saw a tweet saying "I like Zootopia, even though it's police propaganda." (???) Or in a recent discussion on here where somebody said gay cops were banned from a gay pride parade for being cops. But this is all anecdotal.
This really sums up my feeling about most political discussion. They aren't just preaching to choir, they're preaching to the choir director about how sinful the choir is right in front of the choir and then they're shocked when the choir doesn't want to sing.
21 Jan 2022, 7:58 pm
Even if the BLM did not actually meant to defund the police and it was just a shorthand term, some cities have taken it literally though, like NYC, LA, Portland, etc, and actually defunded their police by a significant degree after the defund riots. You do not see anyone from BLM going public saying that those cities misunderstood what they meant, and that it was not meant to be taken literally, but just for shorthand. So if BLM was just wanting reforming, why aren't they going public and saying that their slogan was misunderstood by some city mayors?
19 Sep 2023, 10:07 pm
Americans Don’t Want to Defund the Police. Here’s What They Do Want
These results were no fluke. The same thing had happened in July, when pollsters asked similar questions in Detroit. That survey, commissioned by the Detroit Free Press and USA Today, presented a list of eight issues and asked residents which was the biggest one facing the city. White respondents were slightly more likely to choose police reform than public safety. But Black respondents named public safety as their top concern, and they ranked police reform last. White residents opposed defunding the police, but Black residents rejected it even more decisively.
The findings in Minneapolis and Detroit are part of a larger story. When people are asked what they really think about criminal justice, the answers are complicated. Many white people are open to police reform, and many Black people are wary of curtailing law enforcement.
One of the worst things to propose, politically, is defunding the police. Americans reject that idea by about 40 percentage points. Democrats and people of color are against it. The only idea that’s less popular is abolishing the police, which, in an Economist-YouGov poll taken this month, lost by 45 points among Black Americans, by 64 points among Democrats, and by 76 points among all voters.
These are very important poll results I think are important to keep in mind, and to bring to the attention of progressive activists as the next election draweth nigh.
I'm progressive-leaning, on the whole. But one of the few issues I disagree with many progressive activists on is the "defund the police" slogan, which I think is totally counterproductive.
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19 Sep 2023, 10:49 pm
Already explained that.
Like I already said "White activists" (ie folks for social justice), but who were also misguided.
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20 Sep 2023, 2:33 am
Re-allocate would be the move I would support, like I think police are nessisary in some form, but also clearly they need better boundaries on what is considered necessary force.
LIke they did not have to kill Elijah Mclain, for instance, and turns out it is true all he did was walk down the street while black while listening to headphones, he didn't even commit a crime and still got executed by the police.
LIke to anyone here who thinks he should have complied better, think if police got in your space and violated all your boundaries about touching and such just because you were walking down the street minding your own business. Would you have really remained totally calm and got a better result or could have they still Elijah Mclained you.
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20 Sep 2023, 3:01 am
Ya mean ... make the movie "Robocop" into real life?
Idk if the robots are trained well they might understand about not using lethal force when it's not necessary, a skill current human police apparently need to learn.
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20 Sep 2023, 3:07 am
But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.
Well...the White folks in local legislatures who floated the defund idea across the land were overzealots, or wrong direction zealots, or like that IMO. And I agree with you that "defunding the police" is a bad idea, as well as being a really bad slogan (and our a Black ex POTUS was one of the first voices to advise against using the slogan).
Also it may well be that "more Whites support defund the police than Blacks". Ive heard newscasters say that Blacks in the high crime ghetto, despite getting more harrassment by the police, also fear crime more than whites and want police protection.
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20 Sep 2023, 3:10 am
But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.
Well...the White folks in local legislatures who floated the defund idea across the land were overzealots, or wrong direction zealots, or like that IMO. And I agree with you that "defunding the police" is a bad idea, as well as being a really bad slogan (and our a Black ex POTUS was one of the first voices to advise against using the slogan).
Also it may well be that "more Whites support defund the police than Blacks". Ive heard newscasters say that Blacks in the high crime ghetto, despite getting more harrassment by the police, also fear crime more than whites and want police protection.
MAGA's love police until they get pulled over...by police like to them its unfathomable that a white person would be pulled over since there are black people they could pull over instead.
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20 Sep 2023, 3:25 am
I am one the rare folks who never got around seeing the 1987 movie "Robocop". Apparently the title character was more of a cyborg than a pure robot (had both human and machine body parts). He ran on both batteries and baby food.
https://youtu.be/IqvRDhW-XVA
Last edited by naturalplastic on 20 Sep 2023, 3:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
