War in Ukraine: both sides are wrong

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I did report that this was highlighted by Vice media (who seem to be one of the few unbiased sources) as a possible precursor to Putin's decision to invade based on interviews some Vice journalist had with ethnic Russians who were actually on the ground in eastern provinces prior to Putin giving the order to his tanks to roll in. There was (according to Vice) definite panic on the part of ethnic Russians by counter-incursions by Azov and apparent night time terrorist attacks on civilians. Whether this was valid enough or serious enough to justify Putin's decision to invade is a matter of conjecture because we simply don't know the facts (like some here seem so confident to claim). However, it would not surprise me if this was blown out of proportion to justify invasion (one remembers the US doing something similar in South Vietnam in the 1960s).

The problem I have with the narrative that Putin is a megalomaniac and was always intending to come back and invade Ukraine since 2014 is they are basing that on an assumption and not what was actually happening on the ground in the Russian ethnic enclaves.

One interesting point that corroborates something fishy was the planned targeting of foreign students in Ukraine where there many reports in both Ukraine and Poland of right wing groups hunting non-white refugees like wolves during the night as women and children were freezing in the winter cold.

The fog of war has certainly settled on this conflict and as time progresses this might turn into a battle on two fronts for the international community to firstly kick the Russian troops out but then (perhaps) protect ethnic Russians from reprisal.

But the end result still remains, nonetheless.
If pootin retains the eastern section he controls now, it is still a wasteland that will need a lot of resources (that pootin can't afford) to rebuild.

Anyone who believes that is naive or lying.
Pootin has zero credibility.



His failed attempt at capturing Kyiv and murdering the government strongly suggests this was the aim.



pootin was attempting to gain approval at "home" as happened with his other murderous adventures.
I doubt "his people" are very happy with the crap pootin has put them in over Ukraine.



Agreed.

Apparently, pootin disagrees with you.

Too simplistic, since there are other considerations such as Ukraine wanting NATO membership, NATO influences creeping closer to the Russian border, the ousting of a Moscow friendly Ukrainian government, and the strategic desire of creating a land bridge to the Crimean Peninsula, but pootin is still the villain in this tragedy.

I want to conquer China to eliminate a sovereignty threat to Australia, but people would be outraged with that, also, after laughing themselves to death.

More the latter

He can build military bases there and attack again (he or his successor) some 10 years later.
That's how Crimea and "republics" have been used.

Check your news sources.
You're repeating gossip that didn't stand fact-checking. Again.

There are no "Russian enclaves" in Ukraine. Russians and Ukrainians mix with each other to the point that prior to 2014, there was no common sense of a line separating Russian-speaking Ukrainians from Russians. It was a continuum.

BTW, Mariupol is by majority ethnically Russian - 95% Russian speakers, about 50% with close family links to Russia.
Look how the Russian army "liberated" them from those "evil Ukrainians".

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=405923&p=9040453#p9040237
I've seen some evidence supporting cyberdad's assertion.
Although this form of Nazism may not be aimed at Russians.

I mainly mean this "wolf hunting non-white refugees". That's been well-debunked.

Taking into account that this mass shooter was active months after this war started, there's no reson to assume anyone in Azov supported him - rather, he's taking their cause to push his own.

Wearing the same symbols - you know, how about all those Hindus who wear swastikas?

My thinking is that this might suggest that the Azov Battalion did train/support some lethal "alt-rights" before the war.

Azov Batallion was originally a bunch of nationalist paramilitarists themselves. After 2014, they got integrated into regular armed forces, trained, disciplined, armed and put under unified command.

This isn't gossip, the refugees were being interviewed by an Australian news journalist

The Indian family (including mother with children) said when they crossed the border from Ukraine into Poland that along with surviving the freezing cold outside train stations they were being hunted by Polish far right groups during the night.

As you say many of the former nationalists are now integrated in the armed forces. But the question is whether they gave up their old beliefs, Judging from stories from foreign students escaping Ukraine there may be elements in the Ukrainian border forces who are discriminating against non-white refugees.

Maybe better post these articles, for what you posted before often appeared as if you didn't read much below the headlines. Everyone was freezing in February and there were occasional racist incidents in the fleeing crowds. I wonder if it would look any better (outside of the climate) if it was happening in Australia.

That was always implied.
He needs to rebuild his military at the expense of growth/wealth infrastructure.
Soon the army will once again be cannibalising their bunkmates because they are starving, as happened on at least one occasion in the Soviet era.

It's not funny that it's accelerating in exactly this direction.
Russian state is not better for ethnic Russians than many other states, even taking a lot of possible discrimination into account.