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SkinnedWolf
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27 Jun 2022, 1:25 pm

I'm waiting for the day when fetus’ gun rights come up.
The fetus is also human. Why not.


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27 Jun 2022, 4:39 pm

ironpony wrote:
How come the judge in the row vs. Wade tried to make up a law in the constitution, that isn't there, hoping it will stick?
He (actually, SCOTUS) didn't "make up a law in the constitution".

It was agreed that a woman has a right to bodily autonomy, and that right is is protected by the constitution.
This meant that a woman was free to make a decision about her own body, her own pregnancy, and terminate it if she wished without interference.

It's pretty basic stuff and shouldn't have ever been necessary to state - at least, not in a country like the USA which ordinarily takes pride in the freedoms it grants citizens.

Except now it isn't constitutionally protected. It's been moved backwards into an insane free-for-all where any state can make up its own rules on abortion.
That change essentially says to women, WRT pregnancy, "The state owns your body - you have no right to treat it as your own.".

As a result around 50% of all states have or intend to enact much stricter rules of abortion, with one extreme being that abortions will not be permitted after 12 weeks with no exceptions - not even in the case of rape or incest.
Other states will make no changes so abortion will still be available in those.

But it's the poorer women who will be most impacted - those who can't afford to travel to other states, the expense of hotels, medical bills etc. It's also not necessarily a quick hop over the border: she may be surrounded by states also forbidding abortions.

There are also several test cases just itching to get started: if someone drives a woman to a more favorable state so she has an abortion - is he then guilty of aiding a murder?


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Aspiegaming
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27 Jun 2022, 5:16 pm

If women can now go to jail for having an abortion, can they also go to jail for having so much as a miscarriage even if whether by accident or just a passing unfortunate random occurrence?


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aghogday
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27 Jun 2022, 5:30 pm



Yikes, A Trigger Law
Against Abortion Banned
it at Any Stage With No Exceptions
For Incest or Rape in Louisiana; Fortunately, So Far,

A State Judge Has Blocked the Law From Going into Effect,

Until July 8th, 2022;

Meanwhile, After the
Judge's Ruling, Abortions

Will Be Provided As Before
Roe Versus Wade was Overturned.

Similar Challenges Are Occurring Nation-Wide
At the State Level For 'Good Reason,' Considering
That Around 60 Percent of United States Citizens

Are Against the
Over-Turning

of Roe Versus
Wade; Indeed, the
"We the People" Will
Have Our Say So at
The State Level For Real too...

Particularly, Considering The Wide
Ranging Harm to Women's Health This
'Supreme Court Ruling' 'Instigates' Far Beyond

Just the Safe and Medical Procedure of Abortion

For All Women To Retain

Autonomy Over Their
Body Per Reproductive

Freedoms For Their Sanctity
of Breathing Rights to Life,

Liberty, and the Pursuit of Their
Happiness With Least Harm to Others;

That's A Dire Problem with the Supreme Court
Ruling; it Has No Soul of Doing The Least Harm

For the
Sanctity

of Breathing

Life For Real
Now For Everyone Concerned...

It's Cold, Callous, And Has No Real Human Soul...

It IS A Progenitor of Injustice For What IT Even

Means to Be Breathing Free and Human Now FoR REaL.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61958810



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27 Jun 2022, 6:24 pm

Beware when religion and ideology replace law, science, compassion, and common sense.


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Tim_Tex
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27 Jun 2022, 6:31 pm

The USA needs to be like Sweden in every way there is.


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Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2022, 6:47 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The USA needs to be like Sweden in every way there is.


Sure, if that includes the blonde hotties!


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ironpony
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27 Jun 2022, 7:03 pm

Cornflake wrote:
ironpony wrote:
How come the judge in the row vs. Wade tried to make up a law in the constitution, that isn't there, hoping it will stick?
He (actually, SCOTUS) didn't "make up a law in the constitution".

It was agreed that a woman has a right to bodily autonomy, and that right is is protected by the constitution.
This meant that a woman was free to make a decision about her own body, her own pregnancy, and terminate it if she wished without interference.

It's pretty basic stuff and shouldn't have ever been necessary to state - at least, not in a country like the USA which ordinarily takes pride in the freedoms it grants citizens.

Except now it isn't constitutionally protected. It's been moved backwards into an insane free-for-all where any state can make up its own rules on abortion.
That change essentially says to women, WRT pregnancy, "The state owns your body - you have no right to treat it as your own.".

As a result around 50% of all states have or intend to enact much stricter rules of abortion, with one extreme being that abortions will not be permitted after 12 weeks with no exceptions - not even in the case of rape or incest.
Other states will make no changes so abortion will still be available in those.

But it's the poorer women who will be most impacted - those who can't afford to travel to other states, the expense of hotels, medical bills etc. It's also not necessarily a quick hop over the border: she may be surrounded by states also forbidding abortions.

There are also several test cases just itching to get started: if someone drives a woman to a more favorable state so she has an abortion - is he then guilty of aiding a murder?


But it doesn't actually say this in the Constitution though unless I missed it?

I assume a person wouldn't be guilty of murder for going to another state if they cannot be charged in that state.



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28 Jun 2022, 3:58 am

ironpony wrote:
But it doesn't actually say this in the Constitution though unless I missed it?
The Constitution isn't a simple laundry list of can-do and can't-do items - that would be impossible for something written in 1787.
But things can be inferred from what it says.

Quote:
I assume a person wouldn't be guilty of murder for going to another state if they cannot be charged in that state.
Clearly not, in the state permitting abortions - but in the state disallowing abortions, where he and the woman live, could he be seen as "aiding and abetting" a murder?


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28 Jun 2022, 4:20 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Beware when religion and ideology replace law, science, compassion, and common sense.
Yes indeed.
Margaret Atwood made an interesting observation, edited here for conciseness -

The hard line of today’s anti-abortion activists is that a person is created at "conception", the moment at which a cluster of cells becomes "ensouled". But any such judgment depends on a religious belief - namely, the belief in souls.

Not everyone shares such a belief. But all, it appears, now risk being subjected to laws formulated by those who do. That which is a sin within a certain set of religious beliefs is to be made a crime for all.
Yet the First Amendment holds that there shall be no state religion.

It should be simple - if you believe in "ensoulment" at conception, you should not get an abortion, because to do so is a sin within your religion. If you do not so believe, you should not - under the Constitution - be bound by the religious beliefs of others.

(This was written after the leaked opinion of SCOTUS became known):
I Invented Gilead. The Supreme Court Is Making It Real.


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Cornflake
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28 Jun 2022, 4:31 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
If women can now go to jail for having an abortion, can they also go to jail for having so much as a miscarriage even if whether by accident or just a passing unfortunate random occurrence?
It's horrifying - that moves into witch trial territory where "goodwife Bessie" is accused by others of behaving in a manner likely to induce a miscarriage.
Now, disprove that...


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Tim_Tex
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28 Jun 2022, 7:43 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fewer women have sex in red states, and fewer men commit rape?

I still don’t get it.


Fewer women in red states have sex because it's against their religion.

As for rape, it's prosecuted and a serious crime, but the right doesn't care about the physical and psychological damage the victim endures. If anything, they consider it just another type of "adultery", unless the assailant is her spouse.



I’ll have to reply later as I’m busy right now and can’t write in detail. Thanks to magz for filling in some of the blanks with common sense.

It seems you are denying the trauma of sex crimes and blaming religion, by stereotyping entire states. I’ll have to read this more closely later because I hope that’s not what you mean.


What I mean is the right is more worried about whether a woman will be a virgin on her wedding day than her physical and psychological well-being.


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Tim_Tex
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28 Jun 2022, 7:45 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
This is going to affect women who are pregnant and have pregnancy complications and they would have to be near death for the doctors to do anything and this will also affect women who miscarry and to get medical treatment for it. Doctors will be too afraid to do anything about it to risk being sued by the state.


The doctors won't get sued. They'll probably get thrown in jail, possibly forever.


Correction: 10-20 years and a $100,000 fine


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28 Jun 2022, 7:49 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
If I were arrested, I would blame the cop.


I'd blame a lack of proper planning. The cop is doing their duty, you're the one with the duty to ensure you're able to remove yourself after the action. It sounds immature to shift that responsibility on to others, but especially a party who's actually obliged to work against your goals.


Long story short: I really, really, really hate cops.


Could I have the long version?


Two words: Derek Chauvin


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kraftiekortie
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28 Jun 2022, 7:50 am

I feel like the potential for a woman to be taken to jail for a miscarriage goes really beyond the pale----but I do see your point.



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28 Jun 2022, 8:29 am

ASAN’s Webinars on reproductive and disability rights

Quote:
Bodily autonomy, privacy, and access to abortion all matter for people with disabilities; reproductive justice is a disability justice issue. Last week’s Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization ruling will have a big effect on our community, because the Supreme Court plays a big role in interpreting and enforcing laws that affect people with disabilities. It’s important to understand what our rights around reproductive health care, especially abortion, are right now.

ASAN is holding a webinar series to talk about what the Supreme Court decision means for our rights, reproductive justice as disability justice, and the legal implications of the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization ruling. It’s important to have accessible information on decisions like this that affect our community, so all three webinars will be in plain language.

On Thursday, June 30 from 6:00 PM – 7:30 PM ET, we will be holding Our Bodies, Our Rights: What’s Going On at the Supreme Court?
In this webinar, we will talk about:

What is Roe v. Wade?
What is Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization?
Why does abortion matter to people with disabilities?
Why do bodily autonomy and self-determination matter to people with disabilities?


On Thursday, July 7 from 6:00 PM – 7:30 PM ET, we will be holding Where We Are Heading: Legal Implications of Dobbs?
In this webinar, we will talk about:

What cases were affected by the ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, such as Roe v. Wade?
What rights are affected by this ruling?
What does the right to privacy mean and how is it impacted by this ruling?
What is the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?
What does stare decisis mean and how it is impacted by this ruling?


On Thursday, July 14 from 6:00 PM – 7:30 PM ET, we will be holding Resisting Together: Reproductive Justice as Disability Justice.
In this webinar, we will talk about:

What is reproductive justice?
What is disability justice?
What is forced sterilization?
Why does access to reproductive health care matter to people with disabilities?
What does self-determination have to do with reproductive justice?


All three webinars are open to everyone, but we especially want to invite self-advocates and allies to attend! They will be around 90 minutes each and will also be streamed on YouTube. The webinars will be on Zoom and will have CART (Communication Access Realtime Translation). If you have any questions or would like to request any additional accommodations such as ASL interpretation, please email [email protected].


Links to join the zoom webinars are in the linked webpage


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