Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Pepe
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02 Feb 2023, 6:33 pm

magz wrote:

Regular people without state-level budgets have no means to stand a chance hunting someone like Putin. He has paranoid security even for a head of a state.

He has amassed multiple/overlapping Anti Air Defence systems around Moscow.

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Josh68
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02 Feb 2023, 6:44 pm

Pepe wrote:

Josh68 wrote:

Well, if you send American military personnel to operate the tanks, then what you have is the U S. entering the conflict directly on the ground. That would make the situation even more dangerous than it already is. We're already at a higher threat of this conflict going nuclear than at any time during the cold war.

Ukraine tank crews are already being trained in other countries.

It still takes months to train them. Not all the promised equipment is even going to get to the Ukraine before the end of the year.

Russia will most likely launch a major offensive before the end of winter. It's not going to be pretty. More Ukrainians are going to die, sadly. And the U S. Doesn't really care about that.

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Pepe
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02 Feb 2023, 8:51 pm

Quote:

New Russian offensive approaching | World Today | TVP World
TVP World
272K subscribers
53,737 views Feb 2, 2023 #TVPWorld
As we near the one-year mark of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, many in Kyiv and across the West continue to raise alarm bells about a possible Russian spring offensive against Ukraine. The fear of such an attack has been part of the reason behind Kyiv pushing for more heavy weapons, in particular modern tanks to stem such a move. More in our interview with Luke Coffey, Senior Fellow, National Security and Defense Foreign Policy at the Hudson Institute.

Pepe
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02 Feb 2023, 9:03 pm

Josh68 wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Josh68 wrote:

Ukraine tank crews are already being trained in other countries.

It still takes months to train them. Not all the promised equipment is even going to get to the Ukraine before the end of the year.

Russia will most likely launch a major offensive before the end of winter. It's not going to be pretty. More Ukrainians are going to die, sadly. And the U S. Doesn't really care about that.

Quote:

WASHINGTON — New training programs in Poland could get some Ukrainian soldiers ready to operate Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks in combat in as few as six weeks, experts told Breaking Defense, although officers and maintenance specialists would take longer.

Quote:

But Ukraine needn’t send its new recruits. They have thousands of veteran tankers, hardened by 11 months of the fiercest fighting in Europe since World War II. They have thousands more mechanics and logisticians, honed by the desperate struggle to keep a hodgepodge of Western and Soviet combat vehicles in fighting form. They have commanders and staff officers used to planning and coordinating armored warfare.

These veterans would not need to learn the basics: how a tank needs constant maintenance, how it needs careful driving on bad ground to avoid throwing a track — the armored behemoths can be surprisingly delicate — or how the huge machines can hide behind buildings, woods, or even subtle undulations of the seemingly flat steppes, then lash out in ambush. But they would need to learn the Leopard II, which — like the American M1 Abrams, the British Challenger, and other modern Western tanks — is much bigger, heavier, better-armored, and more high-tech than the Soviet-derived designs they’re used to. That affects everything from crew size (four instead of three) to what bridges can support their weight, from how the gun is loaded (manually instead of automatically) to how supply lines and advances must be planned.

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/01/ukr ... g-experts/

ironpony
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02 Feb 2023, 10:44 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

ironpony wrote:

Josh68 wrote:

All the tanks being sent to the Ukraine...there's a big problem with that. It takes a very long time to train troops to use them effectively.

I don't whether it's possible for Ukraine to to win this war now. Let's face it, it's now a proxy war between the U.S./Nato and Russia. It's a dangerous situation that will push the world to the brink of nuclear annihilation.

There's got to be a diplomatic solution to end this madness.

Could the US just send people who know how to operate the tanks rather than training new people? Also is the US just sending tanks are do they have aerial plane weapons they can use, since I am guessing it's easier to win with aerial combat against the ground?

But also does the US have any satellite weapons they can use as well?

Then the US would be at war with russia and that’s what they’re trying to officially avoid by just providing aid to Ukraine to fight their war.. if other countries start shopping, now it’s WW3.

But even if the US sends it own tank operators to operate the tanks, does Russia really care? Is Russia going to launch a nuclear assault just because the tank operators happen to be American intead of Ukrainian? Will this really change Russia's approach to what they have been doing so far?

naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2023, 11:25 pm

ironpony wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

ironpony wrote:

Josh68 wrote:

Then the US would be at war with russia and that’s what they’re trying to officially avoid by just providing aid to Ukraine to fight their war.. if other countries start shopping, now it’s WW3.

Dude...most people understand the concept that "water is wet" without it being explained to them even ounce.

We have to keep telling over and over again that "water is wet", and you still dont get it.

For the billionth time...the US refuses to send troops because we dont want to directly fight Russia and become participants in the war. We only want to send material aid to our ally Ukraine so our ally can keep on fighting. If we send personnel to run the tanks ON THE BATTLEFIELD then those personnel would become combatants. They will kill Russians, and they would start dying themselves, and come home in body bags. By definition we would be ourselves directly at war with Russia. How do you manage to avoid understanding that?

If we send operators of tanks to Ukraine we would be directly fighting Putin so ofcourse Putin would "care".

ironpony
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03 Feb 2023, 12:47 am

That makes sense. Is the US sending more than tanks, such as combat planes or missiles to Russia as well?

Pepe
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03 Feb 2023, 1:41 am

ironpony wrote:

That makes sense. Is the US sending more than tanks, such as combat planes or missiles to Russia as well?

Not to Russia.

They are also sending wet water to Ukraine. :mrgreen:

Pepe
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03 Feb 2023, 2:09 am

Quote:

Why Has Russia Not Collapsed Yet?
Jake Broe
310K subscribers
99,342 views Feb 3, 2023 #Ukraine #Russia #NATO
Despite unprecedented economic sanctions being placed on the Russian economy, it has not collapsed and does not appear to do so in the immediate future. In this video we will discuss Russia's dependence on energy exports to pay for their war in Ukraine. I also argue the Federal Reserve is playing an important role in economically helping to defeat Russia.

magz
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03 Feb 2023, 2:11 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Then the US would be at war with russia and that’s what they’re trying to officially avoid by just providing aid to Ukraine to fight their war.. if other countries start shopping, now it’s WW3.

"Shopping"? Of course we're shopping for military equipment, how not to in this place of the world?

I am among those who believe it is WWIII already - but its shape is not pre-determined and it's relatively unlikely to become a nuclear holocaust - similarily to how armies were avoiding using chemical weapons in WWII.

And when it comes to Biden's proposal - yet another example of how several NATO members want to end this war as soon as possible or even sooner. So, Biden joined Macron, Scholz and Erdogan.
I suspect USA does not want Russia to collapse because that would empower China - but they can't show themselves as an unreliable ally because that would embolden China.

Meanwhile, here in Europe, we need to quickly arm ourselves to be prepared for the worst case scenario (USA gets busy in Pacific and Russia marches on - precisely WWIII).

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Josh68
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03 Feb 2023, 2:31 am

I think the possibility of a nuclear exchange should never be taken lightly. This is an extremely dangerous situation. Putin is not likely to take a Russian defeat lying down, and just might use the nuclear option, crawl into his bunker, and say "f**k it."

And demented Biden might push the red button thinking he's ordering ice cream. We're at the mercy of aging leaders whose dogs aren't all barking!

Scary s**t, huh?

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carlos55
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03 Feb 2023, 2:44 am

Maybe some people are over exaggerating the impact of 100 or so tanks.

Leaving aside the fact that tanks on their own are becoming obsolete we’re just talking enough to take a small town or something.

Ukraine volunteer claims why we’re losing (link)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ8i6Jix5uw

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magz
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03 Feb 2023, 2:56 am

Josh68 wrote:

No, Biden can't push the button like he was ordering ice cream. There are hundreds of people around him and in the command chain. Biden has the ultimate voice but not absolute power.
And, so far, he has not been behaving carelessly at all. If he suddenly started, I'm sure people around him would quickly react - just like those around Trump prevented his most silly, world-destroying ideas (nuking North Korea and dumping blame on someone else) from becoming real.

Where I live, an emergency network for distributing potassium iodine is already established. Just to make you realize how this prospect looks from close up.

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magz
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03 Feb 2023, 3:02 am

carlos55 wrote:

This war is showing tanks are not becoming obsolete. People thought it before because we had no symmetric war for several decades. In a symmetric war, tanks and artillery are the thing again.

Around 100 tanks makes up for losses of some 2 months.
More important than these 100 tanks themselves is the fact of "opening the tap" with Western tanks - because the West is running out of post-soviet tanks and spare parts for them. Switching to Western tanks before it happens means Ukrainians don't hit the bottom.

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goldfish21
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03 Feb 2023, 3:22 am

magz wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

Then the US would be at war with russia and that’s what they’re trying to officially avoid by just providing aid to Ukraine to fight their war.. if other countries start shopping, now it’s WW3.

Typo/autocorrect. Shooting.

My best guess is we repeat history and go to war. Everywhere. People are stupid and haven’t learned.

Plus the banksters & powerful people that run the world probably figure that the fastest way to climate change sustainability is to reduce the human population asap. Why not profit in the process, too?

I’ve been saying this for a few years now. If climate nerds are right, then powerful people know the fastest easiest way to fix things is to get rid of excess people via war. That’s how we reduce resource consumption and slow global warming.

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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.

magz
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03 Feb 2023, 3:29 am

I don't buy the last two paragraphs. War is extremely bad for natural environment. Humans show a reliable pattern of reproducing less in comfortable stability and reproducing more after wars and big disasters. To reduce human population, doing nothing and letting people choose not to have children would be much more effective.

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