Page 4 of 5 [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,886
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

16 Mar 2023, 5:37 am

magz wrote:
Having been to Israel twice, I know how heterogenous this small country is. Really lots of groups and factions and internal power struggles.
I don't like the Israeli-Palestinian war and I don't buy the entirety of propaganda on it from either side. It's something horribly damaging both nations and I think in this case, Israel has more power and thus more responsibility for seeking lasting peace.
Otherwise, living in such a volatile part of the world, with such heterogenous population - life doesn't offer easy solutions to problems. I know it. Still, I don't like the way things are.

Jerusalem is special :heart: Reminded me of some quote from Pratchett about Ankh-Morpork being built on Ankh-Morpork :mrgreen: Millenia of prehistory, history and more history stacked upon each other. And living, building up, making more of it all the time.
And this golden limestone is unmatched :heart:



There's no two nations; and that's the problem.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,459
Location: Long Island, New York

18 Mar 2023, 12:34 am

Democrats' Sympathies in Middle East Shift to Palestinians - Gallup

Quote:
After a decade in which Democrats have shown increasing affinity toward the Palestinians, their sympathies in the Middle East now lie more with the Palestinians than the Israelis, 49% versus 38%.

Today’s attitudes reflect an 11-percentage-point increase over the past year in Democrats’ sympathy with the Palestinians. At the same time, the percentages sympathizing more with the Israelis (38%) and those not favoring a side (13%) have dipped to new lows.

Sympathy toward the Palestinians is also at a new high among political independents, up six points to 32%. However, more independents still lean toward the Israelis (49%).

Republicans’ views are unchanged, with nearly eight in 10 (78%) continuing to sympathize more with the Israelis while 11% side with the Palestinians.

The latest findings are from Gallup’s Feb. 1-23 update of its annual World Affairs poll.

As a result of this year’s partisan shifts, sympathy toward the Palestinians among U.S. adults is at a new high of 31%, while the proportion not favoring a side is at a new low of 15%. The 54% of Americans sympathizing more with the Israelis is similar to last year’s 55% but is the lowest since 2005.

The resulting 23-point gap in Americans’ sympathy for Israel versus the Palestinians represents Israel’s slimmest advantage on this question in Gallup’s World Affairs poll trend. It is also the first time Israel has not enjoyed a better than 2-to-1 advantage over the Palestinians in Americans’ sympathies.

The most consequential changes in public opinion on this question have occurred in the past five years, as support for the Palestinians has ticked up and support for Israel as well as ambivalence about the conflict have each declined.

Aside from partisan differences, Gallup continues to see generational distinctions in how U.S. adults view the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Net sympathy toward Israel -- the percentage sympathizing more with the Israelis than the Palestinians -- is solidly positive among older generations, including baby boomers (+46 points), Generation X (+32) and the Silent Generation (+31). By contrast, millennials are now evenly divided, with 42% sympathizing more with the Palestinians and 40% with the Israelis, yielding a -2 net-Israel sympathy score.

There are too few adult members of Generation Z (aged 18 to 22) in the recent poll to report, but the limited available data suggest their views on this question are similar to millennials’.

Today’s divergence reflects a steep drop in recent years in net sympathy for Israel among millennials, whereas net sympathy for Israel has been steadier at a higher level among all three older generations.

In addition to the sympathy question, which focuses on the Israeli and Palestinian people, Gallup asks Americans if their overall views of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, as countries, are favorable or unfavorable. This is part of a longer list of countries rated each year.

Consistent with prior years, Americans view Israel much more favorably than they do the Palestinian Authority, 68% versus 26%. Israel’s current favorable rating is below Gallup’s annual readings over the past decade, but matches the average since 2001. The Palestinian Authority’s current rating is on par with the slightly elevated level seen since 2021, and is higher than the average 19% recorded since 2001.

As is also typical, Israel is viewed favorably by a majority of all party groups -- 82% of Republicans, 67% of independents and 56% of Democrats. Conversely, relatively few in all three groups view the Palestinian Authority positively: 36% of Democrats, 28% of independents and 9% of Republicans.

What little increase has occurred in the Palestinian Authority’s favorable rating over the past decade has been exclusively among Democrats (up 16 percentage points since 2013) and independents (up 14 points).

Israel’s favorable ratings have been largely stable by party, although this year’s rating from Democrats is slightly below the 60% to 74% range seen over the past decade.

Bottom Line
Americans’ views on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict have become more polarized as Democrats increasingly commiserate with the Palestinians, while Republicans maintain their solid alignment with the Israelis. The escalation of Israeli-Palestinian hostilities over the past year, resulting in a high number of Palestinians killed, could partly explain the most recent shift in Democrats’ perspective. But Democrats’ waning religiosity may be a factor in the longer-term trend. Sympathy for Israel has historically been highly correlated with religion, with those attending religious services weekly being much more sympathetic to the Israelis than those who seldom or never attend.

Regardless of the reasons that Democrats’ (and, to a lesser extent, independents’) views have changed on the conflict, majorities of all generational and party groups still view Israel favorably and look more favorably on Israel than on the Palestinian Authority. This suggests that while rank-and-file Democrats may want Palestinians’ needs addressed, they will want solutions that respect Israel’s needs as well.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Location: Llareggub

18 Mar 2023, 9:16 am

Noamx wrote:

About Israel, I was hoping if you can please what you think about my country in generally, do you like Israel or not, do you hate / like Israeli people?



I've met a few Israelis, and had some Jewish friends. Basically, very good people. For the most part, very intelligent and interesting. I've never been to Israel. Seems like it might be dangerous.

Noamx wrote:
About Jerusalem, I was born in Jerusalem but currently live in the Southern part of Israel, in a city called Ashdod. Can you explain what you think about that?


Well

Wikipedia wrote:
Modern Ashdod was established in 1956 on the sand hills 6km northeast of the historical Ashdod, then known as Isdud, a Palestinian town which had been depopulated in 1948.


Depopulating towns probably wasn't a very nice thing to do. But, in the United States, we did the same thing to our native populations.

Quote:
About US Israel relations, do you think its okay, or the US presidents like us too much, and the love is too strong? Joe Biden and Trump love us very much, and sometimes I feel like the love is too strong sometimes.


In the USA, we have a lot of Evangelical Christian voters. Since the creation of Israel, Evangelical Christians have transformed, from denouncing Jews as Christ killers, to absolutely loving Jews to death. They're convinced that, now that Israel has become a Jewish state, Jesus is on the cusp of returning, to judge the quick and the dead. All based on some rather odd interpretations of a few Bible passages. In Israel, you've probably seen busloads of American Evangelical tourists getting pumped up by their exhorting preachers, and probably praying together at various sites.

Lately, most Evangelical Christian voters go for extremely radical Republicans. And, Democrats don't want to malign Jewish voters, and especially Jewish donors.

So, most American politicians feel obliged to express love for Israel.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Location: Llareggub

20 Mar 2023, 10:39 pm

Well, this isn't very encouraging.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... oon%20Wire


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,970
Location: Adelaide, Australia

22 Mar 2023, 12:05 am

So have we thought of a way to bring peace to the Middle East yet?


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,886
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Mar 2023, 3:13 am

Honey69 wrote:


Israelis as a whole, always repeat this scientifically false narrative that “Arabs are invaders from Arabia”, “we are here in the levant before the Arab conquest”, "we are the natives of the land, Arabs must go back to the desert"...etc

Turned out, they were wrong:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist ... rchaeology

This study was a big news in Israeli journals back in 2017; it caused massive debates among their religious circles online because it threatened their fictional narrative that they’ve worked so hard to promote and sell to the gullible Christian Westerners: “Me Jew, my land is here, them are Arabs, they should go back to the desert”. Because you see, Israelis are not understanding (or rather don't want to understand) that the word “Arab” today refers to a linguistic group, not to a racial group, “Arab” in our modern time really just means Arabicphone, it is not the same as “Arabian”. You see, when Islam expanded (which was nothing more than an Arabian empire), it did replace religions, it did replace languages but it couldn't replace entire native ethnicities; Palestinians most likely had a lot of....Jewish ancestry.

You see, because even their Bible (the Torah) admits that Canaanites are more ancient than the Israelites/Hebrews and natives to the land; so finding that more than 90% of Lebanese are genetically related to ancient Canaanite skeletons, that would really put their story in jeopardy.

Their reactions as a whole was like “Oh NO!! But how comes there’s still so much Canaanite blood? Didn’t our great king David kill them all? Those filthy sneaky Canaanites (spits in jar)”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 62936.html

So in 2017, it was time to create a new full-of-lies narrative to sell to the Western brothers!! And indeed new re-interpretations of some biblical passages been made and came up with a new story: “Oh yes, the bible clearly states that David left some Canaanites alive, they must have escaped north (Lebanon); so they are not related to Palestinians”.

I am not sure if a such study had been done on Palestinians but I highly doubt the Israeli authorities would make it easy to happen. Denying the Palestinian's native ancestry is central in the Israeli narrative to justify their nation's foundation, it is their raison d'être.

Bear in mind, despite having a genetic proof of our "nativity", if the world was not governed by pro human rights domcractic western powers, if there was no UN and global human rights watch, and if Israel was totally governed by radicals and could do everything on their own; they wouldn’t have hesitated to slaughter every breathing human in Lebanon and Palestinian territories, because after all “The bible told us that the Canaanites are filthy and to be exterminated and the Land of Canaan is ours”. So whether we are originally Arabians or Canaanites, it does not mater, there's always a religious justification.


Like Honey69 pointed, there’s a religious component in America’s love to Israel.

Umm… yeah, btw as an atheist I say: f**k your Bible (and the Quran for that matter).



Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Location: Llareggub

24 Mar 2023, 7:04 pm

It looks like Israel was behind Russia's interference in the 2016 election

https://www.thenation.com/article/world ... erm=weekly

Quote:

The Trump Campaign’s Collusion With Israel

While US media fixated on Russian interference in the 2016 election, an Israeli secret agent’s campaign to influence the outcome went unreported.

"Roger, hello from Jerusalem,” read the message from the Israeli secret agent. Dated August 12, 2016, it was addressed to Roger Stone—at the time a key player in Donald Trump’s presidential election campaign. “Any progress? He is going to be defeated unless we intervene. We have critical intel. The key is in your hands! Back in the US next week.” Later, the agent promised, “October Surprise coming!"

While the American media and political system fixated on Russian President Vladimir Putin and his armies of cyber warriors, trolls, and bots, what was completely missed in the Russiagate investigation of 2016 was the Israeli connection. No details of it were ever revealed in the heavily redacted Mueller Report. Nor was there any mention of an Israeli plot in the similarly redacted Senate Intelligence Committee Report on collusion charges in the 2016 election, or in any of the indictments or trials stemming from the Russia charges. Nor did any mention of Israeli involvement ever leak into the press. Yet I can reveal here the details of an elaborate covert operation personally directed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that aimed to use secret intelligence to clandestinely intervene at the highest levels in the presidential election on behalf of Trump.

Shadowy hints of the plot only became visible with the little-noticed release in 2020 of a heavily redacted May 2018 FBI search warrant and its accompanying affidavit. As part of the Mueller investigation, the bureau had conducted an extensive search for any foreign interference in the 2016 election, and the warrant was directed at securing the Google accounts of a mysterious Israeli agent acting under the direction of someone identified as “PM.” The FBI agent who wrote the affidavit noted, “I believe ‘PM’ refers to the ‘Prime Minister.’”

In the spring of 2016, no issue was more important to Benjamin Netanyahu than Donald Trump winning the White House. The GOP presidential candidate was key to everything he was after, from ending the Iran nuclear agreement, to recognizing Jerusalem—rather than Tel Aviv—as Israel’s capital, to continuing the occupation of Palestine. But November was months away, and there was no guarantee Trump would win. In the meantime, Netanyahu was under mounting pressure from President Barack Obama to finally resolve the issues surrounding Palestine. Leading the charge on behalf of Obama was Secretary of State John Kerry, who was equally determined to find a solution after many years of trying.

Kerry was not alone. The Middle East Quartet, a group formed to mediate the Palestine-Israel peace process that included representatives from the United Nations, the European Union, the United States, and Russia, was also seeking a solution to the issues surrounding the occupation—and it was about to release a report that was expected to be highly critical of Israel. With so much on the line, Netanyahu appears to have made a drastic decision. He would dispatch a discreet, highly trusted aide, armed with critical intelligence, to covertly “intervene” in the US election to help put his man Trump in the White House. Based on the FBI documents, the intelligence appears to have consisted of advance knowledge of Russia’s hacking of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, and it may have included confidential details from the stolen e-mails. It was likely obtained by Israeli eavesdropping operations that were targeting secret Russian communications, as well as those of WikiLeaks.

Although the affidavit did not specify any individual defendants, the numerous potential criminal charges laid out in the FBI documents spoke to the seriousness of the Israeli plot. They included violation of the foreign contributions ban, which prohibits foreigners from contributing money or something of value to federal, state, or local elections. Other charges included aiding and abetting, conspiracy, wire fraud, and attempted conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Still another charge, “unauthorized access to a protected computer,” indicates Israel may have conducted illegal hacking operations. Based on the e-mails and text messages contained in the documents, the conspiracy began in the late spring of 2016, when it was beginning to appear that Trump had a good chance of winning the Republican nomination.

This was also when the FBI and the media began focusing heavily on possible Russian collusion with the Trump campaign, as a result of Moscow’s hacking of the DNC and the Clinton campaign. But while the Mueller investigation was never able to conclusively demonstrate any collusion with Russia, the FBI did uncover hard evidence of extensive collusion between close Trump associates and the highest levels of the Israeli government.

On the sixth floor of a concrete-and-glass high-rise just south of Tel Aviv, behind a door marked “Unit 17” in Hebrew, political operatives plot newer and more creative ways to use fraud to win elections across much of the planet. The 16-story Azrieli Business Center in Holon is home to Archimedes Group, a private intelligence company that boasts that it can “change reality according to our client’s wishes.” Those clients stretch from Africa to Latin America to Southeast Asia.

In Nigeria in 2018, the company’s campaign of lies and misinformation helped reelect former military coup leader Muhammadu Buhari as president. Hired by other would-be presidents and politicians around the world in at least 13 countries, Archimedes soon had 3 million people following its phony Facebook and Instagram accounts. It even created bogus “fact-checking” accounts to lie about its fake news stories, claiming they were based on solid facts.

But in May 2019, Facebook caught on to the various scams and removed 265 Facebook and Instagram accounts from the orbit of the Archimedes operation. “Archimedes Group,” it said, “has repeatedly violated our misrepresentation and other policies, including by engaging in coordinated inauthentic behavior. This organization and all its subsidiaries are now banned from Facebook, and it has been issued a cease and desist letter.”

Archimedes is hardly alone. An Israeli government official told the Times of Israel that outsourcing fake news and voter manipulation is a growth industry in Israel because many young Israelis who serve in intelligence units in the army are trained in the use of “avatars,” or fake identities, on social media. The Israeli government appears to have made no effort to halt or even curb the activity. Such inaction may be deliberate, since a number of the groups that engage in voter manipulation have close ties to the intelligence and defense agencies, possibly providing Netanyahu an opportunity to secretly manipulate foreign elections to Israel’s benefit.

In fact, a recent multinational journalistic investigation revealed that Israel has become a world center for the export of election fraud, fake news, hacking of private e-mails, and disinformation. Connections were discovered between private intelligence firms and both Israel’s Ministry of Defense and the firm Cambridge Analytica, which illegally collected data from more than 87 million Facebook users for use in the 2016 presidential campaigns of Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.

The eight-month international collaborative project involved journalists from 30 news outlets, including Israel’s Haaretz, the UK’s Guardian and Observer, France’s Le Monde, Germany’s Der Spiegel, and Spain’s El Pais. They discovered an Israel-based “global private market in disinformation aimed at elections,” according to The Guardian. Among the individuals unmasked was Tal Hanan, a former Israeli special forces operative and the head of a secretive organization with the code name “Team Jorge” whose specialty was weaponizing disinformation worldwide “to covertly meddle in elections without a trace,” said The Guardian.

Hanan told the undercover reporters that his services had been used in Africa, South and Central America, the US, and Europe, and that his company had completed “33 presidential-level campaigns, 27 of which were successful.”

What was not revealed in this investigation, however, was the separate and far more covert operation undertaken by Netanyahu and his secret agent to clandestinely manipulate America’s 2016 presidential election for Netanyahu’s own political purposes.

For years, the man Netanyahu relied on to do battle with Kerry and the Quartet was his top personal aide, Isaac Molho, a secretive and shadowy private attorney who was trusted with the prime minister’s most sensitive missions. “There has probably never been a person in the history of this country in such a desirable position as Isaac Molho,” Haaretz noted. “He enjoys almost complete silence from the media…. On Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s instructions, Molho undertakes sensitive missions to countries with which Israel has no diplomatic ties. The Mossad supplies him with logistical backing, security and transport.”

Some of Molho’s assignments are too sensitive even for the Mossad—a fact that has at times frustrated those at the spy agency. “The Mossad gritted its teeth over the past eight years while watching the diplomatic missions carried out by Isaac Molho, without any requirement to take a polygraph test and as a private citizen with business and other affairs that are not subject to civil service regulations,” Haaretz said. In addition to national loyalty, Molho, whose wife is Netanyahu’s cousin, may even be acting out of family loyalty.

Although the secret agent’s name was redacted from the FBI’s search warrant, his profile, as outlined in the accompanying affidavit, is strikingly similar to that of Isaac Molho. Like Molho, who was described by Haaretz as a “discreet man for sensitive missions,” the secret agent is described as highly trusted and very close to Netanyahu. Most important, at one point, according to the affidavit, the agent was summoned from the US to Rome at a moment’s notice to be by Netanyahu’s side on a date the Israeli prime minister was conducting negotiations with John Kerry in the Italian capital over Palestine. This critical role was for many years played exclusively by Molho. In addition, the agent referred to in the warrant had enough clout and authority to direct the actions of two other high-ranking Israeli officials involved in the clandestine operation to influence the results of the US election. Molho did not respond to The Nation’s request for comment.

The key for the Israeli agent was finding a back door—a covert channel—to Trump. Roger Stone, long a key Trump aide, fit the bill. Although Stone had formally left the campaign, he and Trump spoke frequently and confidentially. For these calls, Trump would often use the phone of his security director, Keith Schiller, “because he did not want his advisers to know they were talking,” according to Sam Nunberg, a political adviser who served on Trump’s 2016 election campaign. Stone energetically supported Israel’s harsh occupation of the Palestinian territories and its bellicose stance toward Iran; following Trump’s speech at an American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) conference in March 2016, Stone noted approvingly that “Donald Trump is a radical Zionist.”

Another Trump aide heavily involved in the conspiracy, according to the FBI documents, was Stone’s associate Jerome Corsi, who appears to have been the original contact who connected the Israelis to Stone. An ultraconservative journalist with a doctorate in political science from Harvard and the author of a shelf of books harshly critical of liberals and Democrats, Corsi was a leading literary light of the extreme right. He gained fame in 2004 for his “swiftboating” attacks on the military record of then–presidential candidate John Kerry. The secret agent was particularly drawn to Corsi’s adulation of Israel and support for its belligerence toward Iran.

Hiding behind his online pseudonym “jrlc,” Corsi was also a virulent Islamophobe. Posting on the conservative forum FreeRepublic.com, he has called Islam “a virus” and “a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion” and has written that “Islam is a peaceful religion as long as the women are beaten, the boys buggered, and the infidels killed.”

After Corsi provided contact information to Stone, the secret Israeli agent and Stone connected. Then, on May 17, the agent wrote, “Hi Roger, I hope all is well. Our dinner tonight for 7PM is confirmed. I arrive at 4PM. Please suggest a good restaurant that has privacy.” The original plan was for Stone and the agent to meet alone, but Stone wanted to bring Corsi along as backup. “I am uncomfortable meeting without Jerry,” Stone wrote, and then rescheduled the dinner for the next day.

According to the FBI warrant, the same day that Stone communicated with the Israeli agent, he began Googling some very strange terms, including “guccifer” and “dcleaks.” It would be nearly a month before those same terms would make headlines around the world. On June 14, The Washington Post reported that the DNC had been hacked by Russian government agents. The next day, someone calling himself “Guccifer 2.0” took credit for the attack. He claimed to be an American hacktivist, but according to a Justice Department indictment in July 2018, he was actually a Russian GRU employee. Soon afterward, the website DCLeaks—another front for the GRU—began releasing hacked Democratic Party documents.

The timing implies that the Israeli agent was Stone’s most likely source of confirmed details of a Russian cyberattack on the DNC, a month before it became known to anyone outside of the Kremlin and the GRU. If that’s the case, there are two critical questions: How did the Israeli agent know, and why was he revealing the details to a close associate of Trump rather than to the Obama administration, Israel’s supposed ally?

n May 18, the day after Stone’s Google searches, Stone, Corsi, and the Israeli agent met for dinner at the 21 Club on 52nd Street in New York City. The restaurant, which features a balcony lined with painted iron lawn jockeys, was a regular Trump hangout. At the top of the agent’s agenda was getting Stone to quickly set up a confidential meeting with the candidate. The next day, the agent pressed Stone in an e-mail: “Did You Talk To Trump This Morning? Any News?” But Stone was coy. “Contact made—interrupted—mood good.”

Then, in early June, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee Report, Stone learned that Julian Assange, the head of WikiLeaks, was about to release something “big.” Stone relayed the details to Rick Gates, Trump’s deputy campaign manager, and told him that Assange appeared to have Clinton’s e-mails. Yet it wasn’t until later, on June 12, that Assange would publicly announce that WikiLeaks had “emails relating to Hillary Clinton which are pending publication.”

These were the first of many tips to Stone that appear to have come from his new Israeli friend. Two days later, the DNC announced that it had been hacked by Russia. The day after that, Stone again Googled “Guccifer” and “dcleaks,” hours before Guccifer 2.0 publicly claimed responsibility. On June 21, as Guccifer released more documents, the Israeli agent notified Stone that he was in New York accompanied by a senior official and would like a meeting with Trump. “RS: Secret,” said the message, according to the FBI documents. “Cabinet Minister [redacted] in NYC. Available for DJT meeting.”

Other parts of the message were also redacted, but in the affidavit the FBI revealed the cabinet minister’s official title: “According to publicly-available information, during this time [redacted] was a Minister without portfolio in the [redacted] cabinet dealing with issues concerning defense and foreign affairs.” At the time, the only minister without portfolio in the Israeli government was Tzachi Hanegbi, one of Prime Minister Netanyahu’s oldest and closest confidants, and Wikipedia (the likely source of the FBI agent’s “publicly- available information”) uses nearly identical language to describe him. Israeli press reports at the time indicated that Hanegbi was in the United States on that date as part of a delegation attending the unveiling of Israel’s new F-35 stealth fighter jet.

Married to an American from Florida and fluent in English, Hanegbi previously held a post as minister of intelligence supervising Mossad and Shin Bet, the Israeli internal security service. The question is, why would a high-level confidant of Netanyahu’s, with an intelligence background and close American links, seek a secret meeting with a US presidential candidate?

Trump had been busy, hustling from city to city on the campaign trail and hitting several rallies a day. Taking valuable time to meet a couple of Israeli contacts was not a high priority, especially without any idea what the meeting would be about. So, on June 25, Hanegbi returned to Israel. “Roger, Minister left,” said the Israeli agent. “Sends greetings from PM. When am I meeting DJT? Should I stay or leave Sunday as planned?” The next day, Stone replied, “I would not leave as we hope to schedule the meeting mon or tues.”

One possible explanation of the agent’s sense of urgency was Obama’s and Kerry’s increasing pressure on Netanyahu to resolve the Palestinian issue. A key element of that solution would be agreeing to negotiate an equitable division of Jerusalem, since both sides claimed it as their capital. But if his secret agent could confidentially meet with Trump and get a commitment that, if elected, he would support keeping Jerusalem undivided, then Netanyahu could ignore Obama. An election win for Trump, therefore, would also be a win for Netanyahu. Especially since the candidate was already fully committed to another key issue for Netanyahu: canceling the nuclear deal with Iran.

Suddenly, there was a change in plans. According to the FBI documents, the agent was ordered by Netanyahu to postpone the appointment with Trump and instead get on the next plane for Rome. In a last-minute effort to find a solution to Jerusalem and the Palestinian issue, meetings in the Italian capital were set up between Netanyahu, Kerry, and the European Union’s foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini. Netanyahu wanted his aide, the agent, at his side. At the meeting, the elephant in the room was a forthcoming report by the Middle East Quartet. It was expected by all to be extremely critical of Israel for its apartheid settlement policies and its treatment of the occupied Palestinians.

The night before the meeting, Netanyahu and Kerry met for dinner at Pierluigi, a popular seafood restaurant in Piazza de Ricci, a block from the Tiber. “What is your plan for the Palestinians?” Kerry asked as the prime minister began chain-smoking a batch of thick Cuban cigars. “What do you want to happen now?” Netanyahu offered a vague response involving a regional initiative, but Kerry wasn’t buying it. “You have no path of return to direct talks with the Palestinians, or a channel to talks with Arab countries,” Kerry told the prime minister, according to Haaretz. “You’ve hit the glass ceiling. What’s your plan?” he asked again. But Netanyahu may well have had one: to use his agent, perhaps sitting with them at that very table, to help put Trump in the White House.

On June 28, after the meeting in Rome had concluded, the agent quickly dashed off another message to Stone: “RETURNING TO DC AFTER URGENT CONSULTATIONS WITH PM IN ROME. MUST MEET WITH YOU WED. EVE AND WITH DJ TRUMP THURSDAY IN NYC.”

The meeting with Trump was rescheduled for 1 pm on Wednesday, July 6, before the candidate took off for a rally in Sharonville, Ohio. The Israeli agent flew to New York the day before and checked into the St. Regis, the French Beaux Arts–style hotel on East 55th Street. The next morning, he had planned to rendezvous with Stone in the lobby for a pre-meeting discussion. “At the St Regis With Lt General. Waiting For You Thank You,” he wrote.

But there were problems involving secrecy. Stone, at his home in Florida, had come down with a bad cold and was too ill to travel, so he arranged for Corsi to make the introduction. That made the Israeli agent uncomfortable because of the sensitive nature of the discussion. “I have to meet Trump alone,” he said, and they agreed that Corsi would leave after the introduction. There was still another problem, however. The meeting was meant to be secret, but the agent was accompanied by an Israeli lieutenant general. So once again the meeting had to be postponed.

Who was this lieutenant general? Unlike in the United States, where the highest military rank is a four-star general, in Israel it’s a three-star lieutenant general, and there is only one, the chief of the General Staff, the commander in chief of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)—the equivalent of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. At the time, that was Lt. Gen. Gadi Eizenkot. But it’s unlikely that Eizenkot was the person waiting in the lobby of the St. Regis to meet with Trump. Eizenkot had little to do with the election—and had actually sided with Obama on the issue of Iran. In January 2016, he said that the nuclear deal “had actually removed the most serious danger to Israel’s existence for the foreseeable future, and greatly reduced the threat over the longer term.”

Instead, it may have been Eizenkot’s predecessor, Benny Gantz, who had retired as head of the IDF in February 2015 but still held the rank of lieutenant general in the reserves and was often referred to by his military title. He was in charge of the IDF during Israel’s war on Palestinians in Gaza in 2014. It was a war that produced a “vastly disproportionate” number of civilian deaths: 1,400 of the nearly 2,300 people killed in the conflict, according to Human Rights Watch. Gantz would later boast that “parts of Gaza were sent back to the Stone Age.”

In May 2020, Gantz would become the second-most-powerful person in Israel under Netanyahu, as the alternate prime minister. At the time of the canceled meeting with Trump, however, he was the chairman of Fifth Dimension, an Israeli private intelligence company run by a former deputy head of Mossad, with another former Mossad member as CEO.

Fifth Dimension wasn’t the only Israeli spy company with close ties to Israeli intelligence. Another was Psy Group, a private intelligence firm that operated under the motto “Shape Reality.” Earlier that year, on behalf of the Ministry of Strategic Affairs, Psy Group had carried out Project Butterfly, a covert operation that spied on and attacked Americans who supported the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement. In April 2016, it offered Trump campaign official Rick Gates another secret operation, Project Rome. The subtitle of the six-page proposal clearly spelled out its objective to covertly interfere with the US presidential election: “Campaign Intelligence & Influence Services Proposal.”

Secrecy was paramount. “We recommend keeping this activity compartmentalized and on need-to-know basis since secrecy is a key factor in the success of the activity,” the proposal said. “Due to the sensitivity of some of the activities and the need for compartmentalization and secrecy, Psy Group will use code names.” Trump was called “Lion,” Hillary Clinton was “Forest,” and Ted Cruz was “Bear.” “This document details the services proposed by Psy Group for the ‘Lion’ project between now and July 2016,” the proposal noted, referring to the period of the US primaries.

The Project Rome proposal read like an official Ministry of Strategic Affairs or Mossad operational document, referring to “multisource intelligence collection,” “covert sources,” “automated collection and analysis,” and an “intelligence dossier on each target, including actionable intelligence.” “Once the information has been uncovered or extracted, it is delivered to the Influence platform for use in the campaign as needed,” the proposal said.

Project Rome’s “Influence+ process” platform involved targeting American voters through “authentic-looking 3rd party platforms”—that is, fake news sites—and also through the use of “tailored avatars,” thousands of phony social media accounts on platforms such as Facebook. “The purpose of these platforms is to engage the targets and actively convince them or sway their opinion towards our goals.” The “targets” were unwitting American voters. “The team will include over 40 intelligence and influence experts,” the document said. Then there were what internal company e-mails called “physical world ops like counter protesters, hecklers, etc.” The techniques were nearly identical to those used by the Israeli firms Archimedes Group and “Team Jorge” to secretly throw elections around the world.

The price tag for the operation was $3,210,000, with another $100,000 for media expenses and $400,000 more for “negative opposition.” It appears that Gates, wisely, passed on Project Rome. The key players behind Psy Group later formed a new Israeli company, Percepto International. Also investigated by the international journalism collaboration, it was labeled “an Israeli factory for online deception” by Haaretz.

Despite the Trump campaign’s rejection of Project Rome, covert high-level approaches to Roger Stone to get directly to Trump continued.

“Hi Roger,” the Israeli agent wrote on July 8. “Have you rescheduled the meeting with DJT? The PM is putting pressure for a quick decision.” Stone wrote back that Trump would not be back in New York until after the Republican National Convention, so the meeting would have to be postponed until then. He added, “Sorry about the fiasco last week, however you can’t just bring the General without tell[ing] me.”

As Trump stormed the Midwest for votes, Guccifer 2.0 was making final preparations for another major release of documents. On July 14, Guccifer sent WikiLeaks an e-mail titled “big archive,” with a one-gigabyte encrypted attachment. Four days later, on July 18, the WikiLeaks Twitter account notified Guccifer the data had been received and that release of the hacked DNC e-mails was planned for later in the week.

On or around the next day, Donald Trump was in his New York office venting at the press for its criticism of his wife Melania’s Republican convention address the night before. There were accusations that she had borrowed passages from a speech by Michelle Obama. At some point, however, according to Trump attorney Michael Cohen’s Senate Intelligence Committee testimony, Trump took a phone call from Roger Stone.

“Roger, how are you?” said Trump.

“Good,” Stone replied. “Just want to let you know I got off the telephone a moment ago with Julian Assange. And in a couple of days, there’s going to be a massive dump of e-mails that’s going to be extremely damaging to the Clinton campaign.”

Trump was pleased. “Uh, that’s good. Keep me posted,” he said into a small black speaker box on his desk. Sitting nearby was Michael Cohen. “Do you believe him? Do you think Roger really spoke to Assange?” Trump asked.

“I don’t know,” Cohen said. “Roger is Roger, and for all you know, he was looking on his Twitter account. I don’t know the answer.”

In the end, neither Mueller’s team nor the FBI could ever find any substantive or conspiratorial communications between Stone and WikiLeaks. He had exchanged a few innocuous messages with Guccifer, later reviewed by the FBI, but there was no indication of how Stone could have known what he knew—which left only one apparent explanation: that the information had been passed to him by Netanyahu’s agent. As in the case of the DNC hack, the information was 100 percent accurate. There was never any evidence that Stone learned of the releases from either WikiLeaks or the Russians, but during that period both he and Jerome Corsi were in contact with the Israeli agent. Israel’s version of the NSA, Unit 8200, which employs some of the most highly trained signals intelligence specialists in the world and is equipped with advanced intercept capabilities, may well have been surveilling Russia and WikiLeaks.

Three days later, on July 22, as Hillary Clinton was preparing to announce her choice of a running mate on the eve of the Democratic National Convention, WikiLeaks released approximately 20,000 e-mails stolen from the DNC. “I guess Roger was right,” Trump told Cohen. Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, agreed. Sitting on the tarmac in his plane, about to take off for his next rally, Trump delayed the flight for half an hour to work the messages into his speech. Hungry for more, he later told Manafort to keep in touch with Stone about future WikiLeaks releases.

On Wednesday, July 29, the Israeli agent was back in touch with Stone and Corsi and eager to connect with Trump now that the convention was over and he was the Republican nominee. “HI ROGER,” the agent wrote. “HAVE YOU SET UP A NEW MEETING WITH TRUMP? I PLAN TO BE BACK IN THE US NEXT WEEK. PLEASE ADVISE. THANK YOU.” Stone sent a message to Manafort about finding a time to communicate, writing that there was “good s**t happening.” The next day, the two spoke on the phone for 68 minutes. The following day, July 31, Stone had two phone calls with Trump that lasted over 10 minutes.

Then on Tuesday, August 2, despite previous failed attempts to connect with Assange, Corsi was nevertheless able to send a detailed message to Stone about WikiLeaks’ future plans:

Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. One shortly after I’m back. 2nd in Oct. Impact planned to be very damaging…. Time to let more than Podesta to be exposed as in bed w enemy if they are not ready to drop HRC. That appears to be the game hackers are now about. Would not hurt to start suggesting HRC old, memory bad, has stroke—neither he nor she well. I expect that much of next dump focus, setting stage for Foundation debacle.

Corsi later told Stone that there was “more to come than anyone realizes. Won’t really get started until after Labor Day.” The details, including the first indication that Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta was a target, were coming from somewhere other than Assange.

“Roger—As per PM we have one last shot before moving on,” the Israeli agent wrote to Stone on August 9. “Can you deliver? History will not forgive us. TRUMP IN FREE FALL. OCTOBER SURPRISE COMING!” What the “October Surprise” consisted of was left unexplained, but the implication was that there would be a spectacular new release of stolen e-mails, possibly centering on Podesta.

Three days later, the agent was even more frantic. He sent Stone his “hello from Jerusalem” message, promising that his government was prepared to “intervene” in the US election to help Trump win the presidency and offering to share critical intelligence to make it happen. Stone replied cryptically: “Matters complicated. Pondering.” Then, the following week, on August 20, Corsi suggested a meeting with the secret agent to determine “what if anything Israel plans to do in Oct.”

From the messages, it appears that Israel either had its own October Surprise planned or was aware of Guccifer’s planned release of the Podesta e-mails before the election. The day after Corsi suggested meeting with Netanyahu’s agent, Stone for the first time publicly indicated that Podesta would soon become a target of WikiLeaks—thereby predicting the event six weeks before it happened. “Trust me, it will soon the [sic] Podesta’s time in the barrel. #CrookedHillary,” said his tweet. Since neither Assange nor Guccifer was a source for either Corsi or Stone, the tweet once again points to the Israeli agent who was in communication with both of them about the October Surprise.

The prospect of an October Surprise, along with the offer of critical intelligence, apparently got Trump’s attention. On September 25, he and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, met privately with Netanyahu and Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer in his Trump Tower penthouse. Later that day, he publicly announced that if he was elected, his administration would finally “recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of the State of Israel.” Since 1947, there has been virtual unanimity within the international community—and among US presidents—that the future of Jerusalem must be the subject of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. Now Trump was vowing to trash that consensus, along with the Palestinians, and support Netanyahu’s agenda. Whether Trump and the Israeli agent ever met in person is unclear. By late summer, Stone and Corsi were becoming increasingly concerned about potential charges, and to eliminate a paper trail they began meeting only in private with the agent. What is very clear, however, is that in the end Netanyahu got what he wanted—and so did Trump.

Around the same time, Stone had a conversation with Paul Manafort, who by then had left the campaign but stayed in communication with Trump’s political circles. According to Manafort’s later Senate Intelligence Committee testimony, Stone told him that “John Podesta was going to be in the barrel,” repeating the claim he made by tweet on August 21, and that “there were going to be leaks of John Podesta’s emails.” A few days later, on September 29, Stone called Trump, who was on the way to New York’s LaGuardia Airport in his black bulletproof limo. After concluding the call, Trump told Rick Gates, who was sitting next to him, that “more releases of damaging information would be coming.”

On October 7, WikiLeaks unleashed 2,050 Podesta e-mails that were damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign—just as Stone had predicted a month and a half earlier. But Stone’s concern about potential criminal charges seems to have turned into outright paranoia. Given that he had no close links to Assange or the Russians, the likely focus of his concerns were his numerous communications with the Israeli secret agent. After all, Stone had discussed clandestine foreign intervention in a presidential election, had made arrangements for Trump to meet a foreign agent, and had predicted the October Surprise. The prospect that authorities might look into any of these actions could certainly have been sufficient to rattle his nerves.

By secretly assisting Netanyahu’s agent in an attempt to make contact with a presidential candidate—aware that he intended to interfere in the US election on behalf of his country—both Stone and Corsi could have faced serious charges as agents of a foreign power under Section 951 of the criminal code, which makes it a crime to covertly assist a foreign government without registering.

Even before WikiLeaks released the Podesta e-mails in October, Stone and Corsi seemed to become nervous that someone would discover their back channel. Soon after the “Podesta’s time in the barrel” tweet in August, Stone and Corsi tried to find a way to somehow account for that unique insight. On August 30, Corsi said in his 2019 book Silent No More, “I suggested Stone could use me as an excuse, claiming my research on Podesta and Russia was the basis for Stone’s prediction that Podesta would soon be in the pickle barrel.” He added, “I knew this was a cover-story, in effect not true, since I recalled telling Stone earlier in August that Assange had Podesta e-mails that he planned to drop as the ‘October Surprise.’” The next day, Corsi said, he e-mailed to Stone “a nine-page background memorandum on John Podesta that I had written that day at Stone’s request.”

Following the Podesta dump, the cover-up became more frantic. Stone ordered Corsi to delete e-mails related to Podesta and hid his own communications with Corsi about WikiLeaks. Stone also pointed a finger at Randy Credico, a onetime friend who had a radio program in New York, as his back channel to WikiLeaks. Credico had interviewed Assange on his program, but that was four days after Stone’s tweet about Podesta’s upcoming time in the barrel. Credico denied under oath that he had acted as a back channel for Stone, and there was never any evidence to show he had.

In a predawn raid on January 25, 2019, heavily armed FBI agents stormed Roger Stone’s Fort Lauderdale, Fla., home and placed him under arrest. He was charged with seven criminal offenses, including one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering. Later that day, Stone was released on a $250,000 signature bond. Defiant, he said he would refuse to “bear false witness” against Trump. Finally, on November 15, 2019, after a weeklong trial and two days of deliberations, Stone was convicted on all counts and sentenced to 40 months in federal prison. But on July 10, 2020, a few days before Stone was to turn himself in, Trump commuted his sentence, personally calling him with the news.

Throughout this chain of events—including the trial, the Mueller Report, and the nearly 1,000-page Senate Intelligence Committee Report—no hint of the involvement of Israel was made public. Despite the clear violations of US law and months of clandestine, high-level attempted interference in the presidential election, no details were released, and no congressional hearings or investigations took place. Nor was there ever a hint in the press, which remained transfixed by Russia.

The evidence, however, suggests that throughout the summer and into the fall of 2016, Israel illegally interfered in the US presidential election. A top agent of Netanyahu was secretly offering intelligence and other covert assistance to Trump to get him elected—all with virtually no oversight or scrutiny by the FBI or the US media, though both had numerous personnel in Israel at the time. Now Netanyahu is back in office as prime minister, and Trump is once again running for president. All the ingredients are there for history to repeat itself, unless the Justice Department and Congress conduct long-overdue investigations into the real source of secret foreign collaboration and interference in the 2016 election, and both the FBI and the media remove their self-imposed blinders when it comes to Israel.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

24 Mar 2023, 7:14 pm

Historically the US has not always been friendly with Jews. One of the large reasons millions of Jews perished in WWII was because US immigration laws and anti-semitism when so many could have escaped in the 1930s.

The current relationship is complicated but one thing a Strong Israel serves is a bulwark against an unstable anti-US coalition of Arab states. Hence the billions poured into Israel as aid from the US. Geopolitically the relationship serves a mutual purpose and will continue in the future.

The current state of tension between Israel and Palestine is being engineered by fundamentalists on both sides. On a personal level I also have had friends/acquaintances from both sides of the divide. Individual people are human beings like everywhere else.

But in the scheme of things (and taking into account the treatment of minorities) I have always supported a strong independent Israeli state. Israel's existence is important and I prefer it continues.



Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Location: Llareggub

25 Mar 2023, 8:04 am

cyberdad wrote:

The current relationship is complicated but one thing a Strong Israel serves is a bulwark against an unstable anti-US coalition of Arab states. Hence the billions poured into Israel as aid from the US. Geopolitically the relationship serves a mutual purpose and will continue in the future.



Well, if Israel hadn't existed, then the USA would have chosen other allies, and would have poured tons of money on someone else.

During the Cold War days, either you were capitalist or communist. The USA was choosing countries to identify as capitalist to get massive amounts of money.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


MechaOphidian
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2023
Gender: Male
Posts: 10

27 Mar 2023, 7:53 am

I give Israel the biggest W for their actions in the six day war no one has given up that much territory they rightfully won in a war willingly period.

The biggest L is demolishing the homes of people and slowly and quietly moving them out one by one.

You would figure that the same people who experienced the holocaust would be the first not to discriminate...

The situation overall is a pair of wet socks, the British gave you land and while the people in that land weren't to happy about it this was when colonialism was just ending.

We can't take that action back despite it being wrong by today's standards, regardless of why the decision was made you guys live there now.

I definitely understand the tension as I too would be concerned if all my neighboring countries prominent figures frequently gave speeches about eradicating me.

The reality is you two can't co-exist because there are radicals in your society pushing them out just as there are radicals in their society attacking you.

Someone's gotta go, or the bloodshed won't end is the true reality and thus I support a fully Jewish Israel.

Of course I don't believe the British had any right to just up and give you Israel, but that doesn't mean you deserve to be rocketed.

Peace will not hit the middle east until the theocratic rulers are all shifted to democracies.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,459
Location: Long Island, New York

27 Mar 2023, 1:34 pm

Netanyahu agrees to pause judicial overhaul following widespread unrest in Israel

Quote:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agreed Monday evening to pause a divisive plan to overhaul the country’s judicial system until the next parliament session following widespread unrest in Israel.

In a brief address, Netanyahu said he was postponing voting on the judicial overhaul to allow time to reach a consensus.

“I will turn every stone in order to find a solution,” he said. “We are in the height of the crisis that is threatening our basic unity.”

But he maintained that the overhaul was still needed.

"A large majority of the public today recognizes the necessity of democratic reform in the judicial system," he said.

Netanyahu's change in plans came after Ben-Gvir, the leader of the far-right Jewish Power party who had been a major hurdle to postponement, said he would agree to delaying the vote.

A National Guard under National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir’s ministry will be established as part of the agreement, the statement from his party said.

I agreed to remove the veto for the postponement of the legislation, in exchange for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s commitment that the legislation will be brought to the Knesset for approval in the next session," the ultranationalist minister said.

Israel had been paralyzed Monday after hundreds of thousands of people stopped working to protest the government's proposal.

welcome the decision to stop the legislation in favor of negotiations," Gallant tweeted Monday evening.

The proposal by Netanyahu’s hard-right coalition in January would threaten the independence of the Supreme Court and limit judges’ powers, according to critics. It has faced stiff opposition, with Israelis regularly taking to the streets to demonstrate.

On Monday, Israel’s largest trade union called for a general strike that halted everything from medical services to flights to meals served by McDonald's restaurants.

Before the proposal was paused, large crowds of protesters and counter-protesters gathered in the shadow of the Supreme Court in Jerusalem, many waving Israeli flags. Some chanted into megaphones or banged on drums.

Israel’s diplomatic staff were among those on strike Monday on the advice of their trade union, one diplomat who was not authorized to brief the media told NBC News. Israel’s embassies in Washington and around the world shut as a result and some diplomats replaced their social media profile pictures with the Israeli flag.

Peter Lerner, the head of international relations at Histadrut, the Israeli trade union umbrella group representing some 700,000 workers, tweeted a video of cheering activists. He said the group’s chairman, Arnon Bar-David, had just told the meeting: “We are stopping the legal revolution.”

In response to Netanyahu's address Monday evening, Bar-David ended the general strike and said he would assist the prime minister in leading negotiations.

"I call on all my friends in the government and in the Knesset, from the left and the right, to put ego aside and see the good of the people and the future of Israeli society before your eyes," he said.

The unrest had affected many sectors. Israel's airport authority confirmed just before 11 a.m. local time (4 a.m. ET) that all departing flights from Ben-Gurion International Airport would be grounded.

Two of Israel’s main seaports, Haifa and Ashdod, said in separate statements seen by Reuters that they would shut down in support of the general strike.

Big brands also took part in the protest: McDonald's said it would begin closing its restaurants across the country from midday (5 a.m. ET) before a full national closure from 2 p.m. (7 a.m. ET).

Israel’s leading universities also closed Monday in protest against both Netanyahu's judicial overhaul plan and Gallant’s firing.


Mass protests erupt in Israel after Netanyahu fires defense chief
Quote:
Tens of thousands of Israelis poured into the streets of cities across the country on Sunday night in a spontaneous outburst of anger after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu abruptly fired his defense minister for challenging the Israeli leader’s judicial overhaul plan.

Protesters in Tel Aviv blocked a main highway and lit large bonfires, while police scuffled with protesters who gathered outside Netanyahu’s private home in Jerusalem.

The unrest deepened a monthslong crisis over Netanyahu’s plan to overhaul the judiciary, which has sparked mass protests, alarmed business leaders and former security chiefs and drawn concern from the United States and other close allies.

In a brief statement, Netanyahu’s office said late Sunday that the prime minister had dismissed Gallant. Netanyahu later tweeted “we must all stand strong against refusal.”

Protests block Tel Aviv main artery

Tens of thousands of Israelis poured into the streets in protest after Netanyahu’s announcement, blocking Tel Aviv’s main artery, transforming the Ayalon highway into a sea of blue-and-white Israeli flags and lighting a large bonfire in the middle of the road.

Demonstrations took place in Beersheba, Haifa and Jerusalem, where thousands of people gathered outside Netanyahu’s private residence. Police scuffled with protesters and sprayed the crowd with a water cannon. Thousands then marched from the residence to the Knesset.

Netanyahu’s decision came less than a day after Gallant, a former senior general, called for a pause in the controversial legislation until after next month’s Independence Day holidays, citing the turmoil in the ranks of the military.

Gallant had voiced concerns that the divisions in society were hurting morale in the military and emboldening Israel’s enemies. “I see how the source of our strength is being eroded,” Gallant said.

While several other Likud members had indicated they might follow Gallant, the party quickly closed ranks on Sunday, clearing the way for his dismissal.

Israel’s consul general in New York City, Assaf Zamir, resigned in protest.

Avi Dichter, a former chief of the Shin Bet security agency, is expected to replace Gallant.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,387
Location: Everville

28 Mar 2023, 5:55 pm

Nothing against Israel


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.

Neurocognitive exam in May 2019, diagnosed with ASD, Asperger's type in June 2019.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,459
Location: Long Island, New York

29 Mar 2023, 6:20 pm

Progressive Democrats Pressure Biden to Shift U.S. Policy Toward Israel

Quote:
resident Joe Biden is facing pressure from members of his own party to "undertake a shift in U.S. policy" to investigate Israel's new far-right government, according to a draft of a letter obtained by Newsweek.

The letter, written by Democratic Representative Jamaal Bowman, urges "immediate action" against the administration of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose cabinet members "are pushing repressive, anti-democratic policies and escalating violence towards the Palestinian population."

So far, it has been signed by nine other congressional progressives, including Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Cori Bush, Summer Lee, Andre Carson and Betty McCollum, as well as Senator Bernie Sanders, who is mustering support for the effort in his chamber. A spokesperson from Bowman's office confirmed the details of the letter to Newsweek.

"This move would threaten the rights of all citizens of Israel, enable more corruption by Prime Ministers, and open the path towards further annexation of Palestinian lands," the letter says of Netanyahu's proposal.

The letter signers are calling on the Biden administration to ensure that taxpayer funds are not supporting "projects in illegal settlements" and that all future U.S. assistance to Israel will not be used "in support of gross violations of human rights."

The Democrats are also asking the president to determine whether there have been any violations of the Arms Export Control Act and the Foreign Assistance Act, which prohibit American weapons from being used for human rights abuses.

"We urge immediate action to prevent the further loss of Israeli and Palestinian lives," the letter reads. "Only by protecting democracy, human rights, and self-determination for all Palestinians and Israelis can we achieve a lasting peace."

Twenty-three organizations, including Americans for Peace Now and Jewish Voice for Peace Action, have endorsed the effort.

Asking other members of Congress to support the letter to Biden, Bowman told his colleagues: "The longer we wait to take action, the further the reality of a two-state solution – and the closer the reality of an entrenched extremist government and worsening violence in the region."

The Biden administration has said that Israelis and Palestinians deserve "equal measures of freedom," but Biden has also warned Netanyahu against the proposed judicial changes in the wake of the recent unrest in Israel.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,274
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

29 May 2023, 8:35 am

MechaOphidian wrote:
I give Israel the biggest W for their actions in the six day war no one has given up that much territory they rightfully won in a war willingly period.

The biggest L is demolishing the homes of people and slowly and quietly moving them out one by one.

You would figure that the same people who experienced the holocaust would be the first not to discriminate...

The situation overall is a pair of wet socks, the British gave you land and while the people in that land weren't to happy about it this was when colonialism was just ending.

We can't take that action back despite it being wrong by today's standards, regardless of why the decision was made you guys live there now.

I definitely understand the tension as I too would be concerned if all my neighboring countries prominent figures frequently gave speeches about eradicating me.

The reality is you two can't co-exist because there are radicals in your society pushing them out just as there are radicals in their society attacking you.

Someone's gotta go, or the bloodshed won't end is the true reality and thus I support a fully Jewish Israel.

Of course I don't believe the British had any right to just up and give you Israel, but that doesn't mean you deserve to be rocketed.

Peace will not hit the middle east until the theocratic rulers are all shifted to democracies.

This is very well thought-out, much better than 90% of what I read on this topic!


_________________
My WP story


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,274
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

29 May 2023, 8:56 am

I have wanted to comment on this thread, also it seems directed at Americans and I am American.

So the US is in a unique position in having such a large Jewish population (numerically) and when the State of Israel was first founded, it got a lot of favorable mention in popular media (at the time there was a large number of Jews in the entertainment industry, probably more so than nowadays) so Americans weren't often exposed to the same sort of anti-Zionist messages compared to most people in the world. Having said that, those anti-Zionist messages were largely motivated as much by traditional anti-Semitism in those countries as by compassion for the Palestinian people. Whereas in the US, especially since WWII, anti-Semitism has been marginalized so such messages simply don't resonate here as much.

So it turns out that I married a Jewish woman and though I had never been anti-Zionist, I can say that I didn't truly appreciate the State of Israel and what it means to Jews until being married to a Jew for a while. So I do think there's sometimes a disconnect between pro-Israel messaging aimed primarily at Jews vs. encouraging support for Israel on the part of the general population. And in the case of the latter, there is a fairly low threshold for getting sympathy for the Palestinian cause. In addition to my point earlier about the role of Jews in yesterday's Hollywood, the Left in American also had a large Jewish component (I believe a lot of Americans who volunteered to fight on the Republican side during the Spanish Civil War were Jewish) which sort of inoculated the Left against anti-Zionism compared to Europe in particular. But nowadays we see more anti-Israel sentiment on the Left so that's changing.

BTW I have actually visited Israel twice. The first time I went on an academic tour with my then-girlfriend's college that was having trouble recruiting participants because the Yom Kippur War had just happened. Nobody on that tour was Jewish (the main focus was archaeology). I also spent a month picking oranges at a settlement near the Gaza Strip after that tour ended, during which I had quite a bit of personal contact with Israelis (or at least the sort that lived in that sort of place) and even began to feel somewhat comfortable there. The second time was with my wife on a tour organized by the Reform Synagogue where we were married. I think one feels differently about a country one has experienced personally.

Nowadays I feel strongly in favor of Israel as a country but by no means do I agree with all its government's policies but then I feel exactly the same way about my own country. As for the Jewish vs. Palestinian conflict, I pretty much agree with everything that @MechaOphidian said in their comment. I will add though that I personally believe that after the Naqba, that organizations such as the UN deliberately took measures to encourage Palestinians to remain in refugee camps rather than accept resettlement, because that would put pressure on Israel to capitulate at the time when its victory in 1948 was still shaky and a second offensive, with international support, might have successfully reversed those gains. Of course that didn't succeed and now the world is stuck with this situation forever.

EDIT 1: It occurs to me that being American puts me in a unique situation because the US and the Anglosphere in general is perhaps unusual in that it's "normal" for a non-Jewish man to marry a Jewish woman. Jewish communities elsewhere in the world e.g. France, Argentina seem much more insular and less prone to intermarriage.

EDIT 2: I should share one experience I had in Israel that to me sort of emphasizes what sort of country Israel was at the time (or possibly still). So at that time there were a lot of Moroccan Jews there whom you could easily identify as they always spoke French among themselves. At that time, I spoke French fluently (I still speak it fairly well although I don't often have the opportunity) and found myself sitting alone at a bar in a resort in Eilat. The people working behind the bar were all conversing in French. When I first ordered a beer, I probably did so in (broken, heavily-accented) Hebrew but then it became obvious I could communicate with these people in French so when I had a later request I simply stated it in French which is probably what anyone in my situation would have done. Upon hearing this, the people working behind the bar IMMEDIATELY switched over to speaking Hebrew although the topic of their conversation wasn't especially private as I can recall. To me this signaled a distinct "us-vs-the-world" mentality. I don't know how true this still is.


_________________
My WP story


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Location: Llareggub

29 May 2023, 1:40 pm

An interesting video on Israel's demographic crisis



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST_eZwB ... =WonderWhy


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah