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Lecia_Wynter
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27 Mar 2023, 11:14 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.



Sweetleaf
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27 Mar 2023, 1:50 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.


Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense.


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Sweetleaf
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27 Mar 2023, 1:52 pm

neilinmich wrote:
Try doing a Google search for "collective narcissism". It will explain so much.
This is an article I found from a UK psychologist.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 1420917703

I was taken aback by how universal this problem is. I mean it explains every war in every country in every time period. It explains every act of genocide.
And, of course, it explains the current Republican party and their anti-woke rhetoric.

I take it to mean this is an evolutionary property of humans that we all have. Some of us are the instigators and leaders of it. While the vast majority of us get sucked into it by peer pressure.

I am grateful that I have learned about it. I want nothing to do with it.

Please don't attack me for posting this link. I understand that the topic will upset a lot of people who are already part of a collective like this. I didn't want to start a new thread with it for that reason. But I'll take a chance with it as a reply to an existing thread.


I'll look into that, sounds interesting.


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JimJohn
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27 Mar 2023, 2:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.


Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense.


I am sure this story was blown out of proportion but I find it interesting.

Apparently, the previous governor of Virginia who is a pediatrician by trade described how post birth abortions would proceed.

I'm not saying he is proposing it. I don't know. But ... it seems pretty creepy to me. It might be of interest to someone to google it. Here is a random link I found about it on google.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-g ... -comments/



Last edited by JimJohn on 27 Mar 2023, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JimJohn
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27 Mar 2023, 2:49 pm

neilinmich wrote:
Try doing a Google search for "collective narcissism". It will explain so much.
This is an article I found from a UK psychologist.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 1420917703

I was taken aback by how universal this problem is. I mean it explains every war in every country in every time period. It explains every act of genocide.
And, of course, it explains the current Republican party and their anti-woke rhetoric.

I take it to mean this is an evolutionary property of humans that we all have. Some of us are the instigators and leaders of it. While the vast majority of us get sucked into it by peer pressure.

I am grateful that I have learned about it. I want nothing to do with it.

Please don't attack me for posting this link. I understand that the topic will upset a lot of people who are already part of a collective like this. I didn't want to start a new thread with it for that reason. But I'll take a chance with it as a reply to an existing thread.


If it is universal both sides are doing it.



neilinmich
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27 Mar 2023, 3:51 pm

Here's a quote from the collective narcissism article that is particularly relevant to this thread:

"The association between undermined self-esteem and collective narcissism was predicted by the Frankfurt School scholars (e.g., Fromm, 1973) and status-politics theorists (e.g., Hofstadter, 1965). They suggested that in conditions that undermine self-worth, people used their in-groups instrumentally to boost self-esteem. A historical example of conditions that undermined self-esteem and produced a mainstream increase in collective narcissism was the Great Depression, which was followed by the widespread support for fascism."



JimJohn
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27 Mar 2023, 10:17 pm

neilinmich wrote:
Here's a quote from the collective narcissism article that is particularly relevant to this thread:

"The association between undermined self-esteem and collective narcissism was predicted by the Frankfurt School scholars (e.g., Fromm, 1973) and status-politics theorists (e.g., Hofstadter, 1965). They suggested that in conditions that undermine self-worth, people used their in-groups instrumentally to boost self-esteem. A historical example of conditions that undermined self-esteem and produced a mainstream increase in collective narcissism was the Great Depression, which was followed by the widespread support for fascism."


How is that relevant? I am a fan of Scott Adams who says different people are watching different movies. It is from the same book where he explains how he predicted that Trump was going to win in 2016 when no one else predicted it. This is not about Trump though. I hope he stays gone. It is just about psychology. I’m just saying people are watching different movies and I can only guess what you find relevant.

One thing I would like to point out is that “woke rhetoric” goes back at least into Obama’s presidency. I was reading the book “SJW Always Lie” back then. I will have to look to see when that was published. And…. that would not have been the beginning of it.



RandoNLD
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27 Mar 2023, 11:07 pm

Settler colonial state. It doesn't matter which settler colonialist state, or hemisphere; if people from elsewhere displace people who were already there, the end result will be some persistent iteration of Fascism or authoritarianism or whatever it's called these days.



Texasmoneyman300
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28 Mar 2023, 8:03 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.

Machine guns are legal for civilians in the United States provided you are rich enough to buy one and you register it with the ATF and get a tax stamp but NFA guns are highly regulated but they are legal in Texas and a lot of America.



JimJohn
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28 Mar 2023, 8:40 am

RandoNLD wrote:
Settler colonial state. It doesn't matter which settler colonialist state, or hemisphere; if people from elsewhere displace people who were already there, the end result will be some persistent iteration of Fascism or authoritarianism or whatever it's called these days.


I imagine this applies to swamp creatures when an outsider threatens to drain the swamp. The swamp creatures become facist with derangement syndrome.



Lecia_Wynter
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28 Mar 2023, 10:14 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Machine guns are legal for civilians in the United States provided you are rich enough to buy one and you register it with the ATF and get a tax stamp but NFA guns are highly regulated but they are legal in Texas and a lot of America.


I said that machine guns have restrictions. Not that its illegal.

sweetleaf wrote:
Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense."

That's a bold statement. Unfortunately its not true as I've met pro-choice people who are in favor of post-birth and third trimester abortions.

Quote:
Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Define "violent behavoir". The vast majority of violent felons do not become mass shooters. And many mass shooters had no prior criminal record. Who's to say what violent behavoir is? Someone could say that violent gamers have violent behavoir. Hence the danger of it becoming a slippery slope and it eventually becoming like the UK where knives and pepper spray is not allowed. viewtopic.php?t=387819

Image
Another problem with gun control is that gun banners are not considering the future consequences of a gun ban. If society becomes a cyberpunk dystopia, where corporations rule society and have privatized security, what kind of future would that be? Citizens wouldn't be permitted to own guns and corporations would have armed private security patrolling the streets. How could there be a Robin Hood if they banned bows and arrows?



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28 Mar 2023, 10:43 am

I feel one of the main reasons is that people won't admit Trump is a fascist. He has openly stated he doesn't believe in democracy and that the press is the enemy of the people I can't believe that some members of his party openly support a Trump dictatorship. There's a reason he supports Putin and Kim Jong Un; they are role models to him.



JimJohn
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28 Mar 2023, 2:39 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I feel one of the main reasons is that people won't admit Trump is a fascist. He has openly stated he doesn't believe in democracy and that the press is the enemy of the people I can't believe that some members of his party openly support a Trump dictatorship. There's a reason he supports Putin and Kim Jong Un; they are role models to him.


News Update: Trump hasn’t been President for three years now.

He did not state he doesn’t believe in democracy. That is ludicrous. He certainly had a lot to say about the press most of which appears true.

It isn’t his party. That is like saying it is Gerald Ford’s party. Granted, Gerald Ford is dead.

Why wouldn’t I admit that Trump is facist? He didn’t fuel a war in Europe. I will admit that he made a lot of claims of election fraud. That is a bit suspect.

But … he is out of office. Everything was peaceful until all those George Floyd protests with ANTIFA. You can’t really blame him for any of that. ANTIFA and those protesters are not exactly Republican.

I have a big issue with people calling January 6th an insurrection and that Trump was the ring leader. Very few people want Trump as President again but it is disgusting to watch people lie about things.



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28 Mar 2023, 3:23 pm

JimJohn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.


Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense.


I am sure this story was blown out of proportion but I find it interesting.

Apparently, the previous governor of Virginia who is a pediatrician by trade described how post birth abortions would proceed.

I'm not saying he is proposing it. I don't know. But ... it seems pretty creepy to me. It might be of interest to someone to google it. Here is a random link I found about it on google.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-g ... -comments/


Of course it would be creepy if someone actually proposed that. But yeah does not seem they were talking about anything like a post birth abortion so perhaps rather blown out of proportion.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-context-idUSKBN27D2HL


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Texasmoneyman300
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28 Mar 2023, 8:26 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Machine guns are legal for civilians in the United States provided you are rich enough to buy one and you register it with the ATF and get a tax stamp but NFA guns are highly regulated but they are legal in Texas and a lot of America.


I said that machine guns have restrictions. Not that its illegal.

sweetleaf wrote:
Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense."

That's a bold statement. Unfortunately its not true as I've met pro-choice people who are in favor of post-birth and third trimester abortions.

Quote:
Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Define "violent behavoir". The vast majority of violent felons do not become mass shooters. And many mass shooters had no prior criminal record. Who's to say what violent behavoir is? Someone could say that violent gamers have violent behavoir. Hence the danger of it becoming a slippery slope and it eventually becoming like the UK where knives and pepper spray is not allowed. viewtopic.php?t=387819

Image
Another problem with gun control is that gun banners are not considering the future consequences of a gun ban. If society becomes a cyberpunk dystopia, where corporations rule society and have privatized security, what kind of future would that be? Citizens wouldn't be permitted to own guns and corporations would have armed private security patrolling the streets. How could there be a Robin Hood if they banned bows and arrows?

Oh okay.Thanks for clearing that up for me and sorry I was confused.



JimJohn
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28 Mar 2023, 11:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What is it when a woman dies because she needs an abortion and can't get one? just collateral damage?

I don't see how people can value something that hasn't even developed into a person yet over very much alive people living lives. Why should a pregnant persons life not matter? People shouldn't be forced to be incubators against their will that is torture.

If a doctor says "you must get an abortion or you will die" then the abortion should be allowed obviously. And at the beginning they can decide if they want an abortion before the CNS develops.

Quote:
Also how is gun control emasculation? If anything it is simply reasonable to have regulations on guns. I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.

Guns already have restrictions such as no silencers, no machine guns, no short barreled shotguns. Even though very few criminals use silencers anyway so its just tyrannical legislation with nothing more to support it than hollywood tv tropes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWcGwPJQfc

Quote:
I don't think they should be totally banned but there are certainly people who should not be allowed to own guns.
In your mind your particular gun rules may sound reasonable but you are not in control, the goverment is. If you give gun banners an inch they will take five. What started out as theoretically reasonable gun control could slippery slope into UK retardation where in the UK they are not allowed knives or pepper spray even. And the same applies to abortion, you give abortionists an inch and next thing you know you have psychos asking for post birth abortions.


Idk if we already have good enough gun regulations how is it so many mass-shooters with a history of violent behavior are legally able to purchase fire-arms.

Also, no pro-choice person is going to support post birth abortion that's complete nonsense.


I am sure this story was blown out of proportion but I find it interesting.

Apparently, the previous governor of Virginia who is a pediatrician by trade described how post birth abortions would proceed.

I'm not saying he is proposing it. I don't know. But ... it seems pretty creepy to me. It might be of interest to someone to google it. Here is a random link I found about it on google.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-g ... -comments/


Of course it would be creepy if someone actually proposed that. But yeah does not seem they were talking about anything like a post birth abortion so perhaps rather blown out of proportion.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-context-idUSKBN27D2HL


One of the explanations that I am coming up with in my ignorance is that an abortion in the third trimester involves taking the baby out of the body which is technically a birth before euthanizing it. I welcome someone to tell me that is wrong for my own edification.