China's Three-Child Limit In Major Policy Shift

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blitzkrieg
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26 Sep 2023, 8:02 am

Okay, so this article is over 2 years old, which is why I have posted this thread in PPR as opposed to "news & events".

That said, I still find it interesting.

It seems as though China is having the same issue as the west is having - the cost of living is often so high versus wages/income, that people will have to suffer financially in a big way, just to have children. And who wants to suffer?

Some people conclude it is better just not to bring a child into this big, bad world.

Article below:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/31/china-announces-three-child-limit-in-major-policy-shift



goldfish21
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26 Sep 2023, 1:05 pm

Seeing as they've built enough housing, by some estimates, for 3 Billion people and only have a population of 1.4 Billion people you'd think their government might just decide to redistribute housing to anyone who decides to be baby factories. Boom; ghost cities become population centres.

Of course this would create a whole new set of problems.. but free/cheap housing would certainly make it a whole lot more feasible for people to be able to afford to have kids.

Aside: This is the new normal here locally where I am. Young people can't afford to house and feed themselves, the idea of starting families is not in the cards for most people. Most of the people I see with young babies are from collectivist cultures where they have multiple generations and several incomes to a household, not the typical individualist Colonial North American. Since it costs $2M for a typical suburban house, Canada's birth rate is about to nose dive and the only way we sustain or expand our population is via immigration.. which shouldn't be a huge problem considering there's still a several year long wait list of people trying to move here. Although, many of the ones that can do math might opt not to come here because life is often harder here these days (financially) than wherever they are from, so the list might get shorter/only wealthy people will move here to setup shop in the habitable climate zone.


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blitzkrieg
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26 Sep 2023, 1:12 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Seeing as they've built enough housing, by some estimates, for 3 Billion people and only have a population of 1.4 Billion people you'd think their government might just decide to redistribute housing to anyone who decides to be baby factories. Boom; ghost cities become population centres.

Of course this would create a whole new set of problems.. but free/cheap housing would certainly make it a whole lot more feasible for people to be able to afford to have kids.

Aside: This is the new normal here locally where I am. Young people can't afford to house and feed themselves, the idea of starting families is not in the cards for most people. Most of the people I see with young babies are from collectivist cultures where they have multiple generations and several incomes to a household, not the typical individualist Colonial North American. Since it costs $2M for a typical suburban house, Canada's birth rate is about to nose dive and the only way we sustain or expand our population is via immigration.. which shouldn't be a huge problem considering there's still a several year long wait list of people trying to move here. Although, many of the ones that can do math might opt not to come here because life is often harder here these days (financially) than wherever they are from, so the list might get shorter/only wealthy people will move here to setup shop in the habitable climate zone.


You make some good points, goldfish.

I like the part where you point out there it is often actually harder to live in so called 'first world' countries than many countries where people are supposedly less well off, but in effect have to put a lot less effort into life to survive and to be comparable to their peers.



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26 Sep 2023, 1:13 pm

They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.



blitzkrieg
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26 Sep 2023, 1:18 pm

Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.


It's even worse in China in terms of taxpayers paying for pensioners (versus the west), since the official retirement age is 60 for men & 55 for women in China.



goldfish21
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26 Sep 2023, 1:34 pm

Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.

Maybe they'll legalize/broaden medically assisted suicide laws.


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goldfish21
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26 Sep 2023, 1:37 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.


It's even worse in China in terms of taxpayers paying for pensioners (versus the west), since the official retirement age is 60 for men & 55 for women in China.

Interesting. They'll change those age laws, just as they're changing in Canada and elsewhere. Used to be a typical retirement age of 65 here, with well off people aiming for 55. Now you can't draw your maximum pittance of a Canada pension until you're 70 and if you take it early you get less/month. Depends on one's own health/genes whether it's better to take it sooner or later.


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blitzkrieg
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26 Sep 2023, 1:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.


It's even worse in China in terms of taxpayers paying for pensioners (versus the west), since the official retirement age is 60 for men & 55 for women in China.

Interesting. They'll change those age laws, just as they're changing in Canada and elsewhere. Used to be a typical retirement age of 65 here, with well off people aiming for 55. Now you can't draw your maximum pittance of a Canada pension until you're 70 and if you take it early you get less/month. Depends on one's own health/genes whether it's better to take it sooner or later.


That's true. If you don't expect to live long enough to collect your $'s, then you might as well take less, earlier on.



goldfish21
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26 Sep 2023, 1:45 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.


It's even worse in China in terms of taxpayers paying for pensioners (versus the west), since the official retirement age is 60 for men & 55 for women in China.

Interesting. They'll change those age laws, just as they're changing in Canada and elsewhere. Used to be a typical retirement age of 65 here, with well off people aiming for 55. Now you can't draw your maximum pittance of a Canada pension until you're 70 and if you take it early you get less/month. Depends on one's own health/genes whether it's better to take it sooner or later.


That's true. If you don't expect to live long enough to collect your $'s, then you might as well take less, earlier on.

Yep. I know a woman in her 60's collecting hers because both sides of her family die young, so, even if it's less/month, collecting for a lot more months probably nets her more money considering her expected lifespan.

For myself, hard to say.. my dad's family's males die young, my mom's family live a long time. Hoping my genetics lean towards my mom's family more than my dad's. Add in a reasonably healthy diet and exercise and I Hope to have a longer vs. shorter lifespan.. and in an ideal world I'd earn and save enough money that it's entirely moot when, or if, I ever draw a government pension. Can't entirely count on that, though.. I don't exactly have a high income and life is expensive. BUT, with no dependants and just me I can do better than the typical family man trying to live on the same income I earn, that's for sure.


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26 Sep 2023, 3:04 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Nades wrote:
They're in a panic because everyone will end up retiring at the same time with a much smaller workforce to pay for them.

The younger generation might have to make some tough choice with the elderly soon.

Maybe they'll legalize/broaden medically assisted suicide laws.


It'll hardly surprise me knowing them but I was thinking more along the lines of industrial sized nursing homes where they're fed for a dollar a day.

The numbers of elderly will be crippling soon and they won't be able to treat them with dignity even if they wanted to.

Horrible as it sounds too, I have no sympathy for them as it was obvious this was coming.



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26 Sep 2023, 3:12 pm

^would be quite the shift if that happens. From what I gather from Chinese immigrants here they think it’s awful that Westerners put elderly people on care homes instead of keeping them in the family home and looking after them.

..but if they have no kids to look after them.. ?

Maybe China will become the world’s greatest producer and exporter of soylent green ?


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11 Oct 2023, 1:18 am

Pretty soon China will be instituting a one-child minimum policy.


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11 Oct 2023, 4:03 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pretty soon China will be instituting a one-child minimum policy.
That might affect their gender-blind workforce policies.


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blitzkrieg
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11 Oct 2023, 6:21 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pretty soon China will be instituting a one-child minimum policy.


This wouldn't surprise me.

Welcome back to the forum, funeralxempire!



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11 Oct 2023, 9:20 am

Too many old people for the young to support? Simple solution: release a virus that selectively kills off the elderly. Oh, wait, they tried that but some rotter invented a vaccine. UK solution: reduce life expectancy. It's ethical too, because hunter-gatherers don't live very long but they're happier than we are.



blitzkrieg
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11 Oct 2023, 1:50 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Too many old people for the young to support? Simple solution: release a virus that selectively kills off the elderly. Oh, wait, they tried that but some rotter invented a vaccine. UK solution: reduce life expectancy. It's ethical too, because hunter-gatherers don't live very long but they're happier than we are.


Apparently ageing itself can cause depression, which is why there are a lot of depressed people in modern society.