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ASPartOfMe
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21 Feb 2024, 1:27 pm

Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?

I do not feel like living under an authoritarian regimen or even a partial one. No, he is not Hitler but he is bad enough. Money is not everything.

Speaking of money the Biden administration has been defined by supply shortages and inflation. This was a result of the pandemic. Would Trump really been better with the after effects of the pandemic? The massive spending spree to ease the effect of all the lockdowns was a big inflation factor. That started under Trump. Blame the lockdowns for all sorts of problems? They were at their height under Trump. Hate Fauchi? Trump did not fire him.

World problems. Our defeat in Afghanistan under Biden exposed us as a paper tiger and emboldened our enemies. Biden was honoring the commitment Trump made.

Biden has f****d up Ukraine by giving just enough aide not to lose. That is still better then encouraging Russia to attack countries we have treaty obligations to defend because they did not pay enough.

The Mideast War is complicated but the proximate cause is Iran unleashing it’s proxies because their enemies were gaining the upper hand with Israel forming alliances with them. That process started with the Abraham accords the Trump administration was instrumental in creating.

The President of the United States controls a lot of powerful stuff. I don’t want a loose cannon in that position. He was not the maniac during his first Administration that so many feared. True enough. This was because he was reigned in by old school Republican/Conservatives or RINO’s if you prefer. Those people have their podcasts, their guest appearances on MSNBC etc. What they don’t have is power.


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21 Feb 2024, 2:05 pm

Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?


1. Because he's a civilly liable rapist convicted fraudster conman to the Nth degree and has no understanding of how to govern. He's such an economic moron that he thinks China paid Billions an Billions in tariffs to the USA.. when in reality, tariffs are paid by American citizen importers of Chinese goods. He cost American importers Billions and Billions, he didn't collect one cent in tariffs from China because that's now how tariffs work. They're intended to deter foreign purchases and buying domestic. That's One example of how ridiculous he is. Another MAJOR one is that through tax cuts to the ultra wealthy and wasteful spending trump added $7.8 TRILLION to the national debt in 4 years... more than any other president EVER. What a loser. He was also responsible for the USA having HALF A MILLION covid deaths - far more than they should have by global per capita averages.. because of his mismanagement of the pandemic and politicizing mitigation measures and vaccinations.

2. The economy was ok, but by every metric it is stronger under Biden. Feel free to google results and see. Employment figures, incomes, stock market valuation, jobs added etc. If it's about the economy then Biden solidly has a better track record than trump. See above on the economy.. the guy is a moron - he bankrupted CASINOS and if he ran the country the same way the USA would default on its debts.

3. The world being more peaceful may be true.. but it wasn't exactly Joe Biden that invaded Ukraine or bombed out Gaza. Can't exactly pin the state of all global conflicts on whoever is America's president - they don't control the entire world and decide what other countries militaries do. They're only the commander in chief of the US military.

4. To say the border was more secure under trump is a slap in the face to all of the border guards that are still doing their jobs today. The border is just as secure. There are more migrants coming North because trump is no longer throwing kids in cages or stealing them and losing them in some sort of weird foster care system, so yeah, people feel safer approaching the boarder to see if they qualify for asylum or work permits etc. That has changed for sure - but the Biden administration realizes full well that that system is broken and overwhelmed, which is why they've put forward legislation to add immigration judges and border guards and to create a system where migrants can work legally until their court hearings to determine admissibility. It's not the current administrations fault that it takes 8 years for a court date.. that's been a problem that's been building for decades and needs an overhaul so the USA can admit/deny people entry much more quickly.

5. Plus he's just completely f*****g nuts, so why would anyone want to go back to that??? He was only really truly good for the Billionaires and Multi-millionaires he gave tax cuts to.


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DoniiMann
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21 Feb 2024, 5:06 pm

Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?


Because America wouldn't be going back to that. A lot has changed in the intervening four years.

We learned that Trump prefers the Putin style government over the American style government (He praises Putin and Russia a lot, disparages NATO and America's allies, he didn't accept the will of the people in the last election, instead trying to sow doubt in an attempt to get the results booted to the states so they'd vote him in).

Biden has sent more 'illegals' back so far than Trump did in his whole term. A lot of the problem is fear propaganda instead of actual. And as was recently revealed, Trump is less interested in border security than in getting a second term (at least). Biden put forward a bill to give everything QMAGAnon initially wanted, and more, and they were all going to sign it until Trump told his followers not to.

And like I said, the intervening years. He's been found civilly liable for fraud, defamation, and sexual assault. He's got four cases and ninety-one counts waiting. And if there's any doubts where that's going, his past lawyers are mostly pleading guilty or facing losing their bar licenses or getting whatever happened to Rudy. His past government employees are testifying against him, others have gone to jail for him, or may be about to. Still others are writing books against him or doing podcasts.

Why not stick with Biden? His age? Not much older than Trump, and without Trump's family history of dementia. Certainly Biden's record is cleaner. Every time QMAGAnon tries to impeach him, it's discovered their 'evidence' is fake. They've used badly photoshopped pictures and equally poorly edited dockets, outright deceit, and dishonest actors. Indeed, the latest case of the recently arrested Russian oligarch, for lying about Bidens snr and jr. He can go to jail and share a cell with the Chinese spy that QMAGAnon tried to use, if they've caught him yet.

Trumps team is obstructionist, doing little constructive at all.

Biden has better employment numbers, did more for the poor sick, did more for infrastructure, ensured that the great recession that Trump scare mongered about didn't happen, the chips act, and would have done more for border security than even the Trump era, except Trump ordered his followers to ensure it didn't happen.

Probably most important of all though, Biden is for America as it is, Trump appears to be for America as Russia is.


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goldfish21
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21 Feb 2024, 5:49 pm

^ +10 points. 8)


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ezbzbfcg2
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22 Feb 2024, 7:25 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?

I do not feel like living under an authoritarian regimen or even a partial one. No, he is not Hitler but he is bad enough. Money is not everything.


We did live under a tyrannical regime during the Trump years. But it was toward the end when all the COVID restrictions shut everything down. And that wasn't Trumps doing.

As you said, the POTUS is very powerful, but has many checks and balances. It wasn't Trump who shut the world down over COVID. But that was the most tyrannical time in American history. The COVID lockdowns. Which would have happened regardless of who was POTUS.



ezbzbfcg2
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22 Feb 2024, 7:28 am

Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?


The people most vocal in this thread, if you notice, are two Canadians and an Australian.

While the POTUS is a powerful individual, if someone lives in a developed first-world country other than the USA, then it really makes no difference who the POTUS is. It will have a very minimal impact on their lives.

Sure, you can argue that in third-world or volatile countries it matters, if a POTUS wants to bomb or sanction someone. But for America's first-world allies, it really has no effect on their lives. I think it's a hanger-on mentality, when Trump or not is meaningless in the scheme of things for a Canadian, or an Australian, or a Briton, etc.



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22 Feb 2024, 10:20 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
While the POTUS is a powerful individual, if someone lives in a developed first-world country other than the USA, then it really makes no difference who the POTUS is. It will have a very minimal impact on their lives.

Sure, you can argue that in third-world or volatile countries it matters, if a POTUS wants to bomb or sanction someone. But for America's first-world allies, it really has no effect on their lives.

Wrong.
NATO East Flank here.


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blitzkrieg
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22 Feb 2024, 10:33 am

Trump is very questionable in regards to his attitude towards NATO and if he decides to either reduce US NATO spending, or if he decides to withdraw the US from NATO altogether, Europe may face a general threat from Russia, especially if they win the war in Ukraine, which they seem to be doing slowly already.

Trump could essentially destabilise Europe which might even cause global destabilisation.

It is a very serious matter.



magz
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22 Feb 2024, 10:48 am

The whole world is in a very volatile place.
Europe and Middle East are having big wars that may spill outside and become even bigger wars.
Pacific is unstable, too.

Anyone powerful right now needs deep knowledge and great responsibility. POTUS first of them all.

American conflicts on topics like abortion, migration, race equality, taxes, gun control, homelessness and countless other internal issues of USA indeed don't influence me but radical isolationism Trump promotes would lead to catastrophic results here, and, similarly, e.g. in Taiwan, Korea or Australia.


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ASPartOfMe
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22 Feb 2024, 10:57 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?

I do not feel like living under an authoritarian regimen or even a partial one. No, he is not Hitler but he is bad enough. Money is not everything.


We did live under a tyrannical regime during the Trump years. But it was toward the end when all the COVID restrictions shut everything down. And that wasn't Trumps doing.

As you said, the POTUS is very powerful, but has many checks and balances. It wasn't Trump who shut the world down over COVID. But that was the most tyrannical time in American history. The COVID lockdowns. Which would have happened regardless of who was POTUS.

Trump signed a declaration of a national state of emergency over COVID on March 13, 2020. Like I mentioned he did not fire Fauci, Brix etc. He could have said no to mask mandates for federal employees. He could have challenged state mitigation laws and try to cut off aide to states that ordered lockdowns. Most likely if he was more proactive there would have been more of a red state blue state divide as far as mitigation measures are concerned and some private companies would have still had mitigation measures.
Off Topic
I think lockdowns were justified before we knew anything. The problem is once we knew the mitigation measures should have been more targeted. No need for remote learning in schools for over a year. The health authorities should not pretended they were God and admitted this is a new virus and some of our advice will be wrong until we figure things out. Now due to lack of credibility very few are vaccinating and a lot of vulnerable people are not mitigating. More people are being impaired and dying than need be, we are going to have diseases coming back that were thought killed off, and we are going to be in big trouble once the next pandemic hits because mitigation measures won’t be enacted or ignored if they are.


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22 Feb 2024, 1:55 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Why do people act like it would be so bad if Trump wins? Under Trump, the economy was strong, the world was a lot more peaceful and our border was way more secure. Why would anyone be afraid of going back to that?


The people most vocal in this thread, if you notice, are two Canadians and an Australian.

While the POTUS is a powerful individual, if someone lives in a developed first-world country other than the USA, then it really makes no difference who the POTUS is. It will have a very minimal impact on their lives.

Sure, you can argue that in third-world or volatile countries it matters, if a POTUS wants to bomb or sanction someone. But for America's first-world allies, it really has no effect on their lives. I think it's a hanger-on mentality, when Trump or not is meaningless in the scheme of things for a Canadian, or an Australian, or a Briton, etc.

Wrong.

Something like 70% of Canada's trade comes from the USA. American economic policies affect us big time. So do many other laws - even firearms ones. Most of the guns used in crimes in Canada are smuggled from the USA, for example.

Also, the BS culture wars stuff spills across the border via media airwaves, so we get people being racist jerks or transphobic bigots thanks to trumplestiltskin and the fringe right faux news culture war propaganda nonsense. Canada is right next door to the USA.. when hate crimes rise in the USA because the orange guy gives people the social license to be terrible, similar things happen here.

And so on. Unfortunately the American president does have a lot of influence over other countries citizens' daily lives.


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ezbzbfcg2
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23 Feb 2024, 7:11 am

magz wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
While the POTUS is a powerful individual, if someone lives in a developed first-world country other than the USA, then it really makes no difference who the POTUS is. It will have a very minimal impact on their lives.

Sure, you can argue that in third-world or volatile countries it matters, if a POTUS wants to bomb or sanction someone. But for America's first-world allies, it really has no effect on their lives.

Wrong.
NATO East Flank here.


No. Not wrong.

Please don't be offended, but I still consider Poland to be a second-world country. Any of the former Soviet or Iron Curtain countries are still second-world.

That's why I didn't simply say "developed country," I clarified with first-world. Excluding your second-world country which doesn't apply, I stand by everything I've said.



ezbzbfcg2
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23 Feb 2024, 7:16 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Trump signed a declaration of a national state of emergency over COVID on March 13, 2020. Like I mentioned he did not fire Fauci, Brix etc. He could have said no to mask mandates for federal employees. He could have challenged state mitigation laws and try to cut off aide to states that ordered lockdowns. Most likely if he was more proactive there would have been more of a red state blue state divide as far as mitigation measures are concerned and some private companies would have still had mitigation measures.
Off Topic
I think lockdowns were justified before we knew anything. The problem is once we knew the mitigation measures should have been more targeted. No need for remote learning in schools for over a year. The health authorities should not pretended they were God and admitted this is a new virus and some of our advice will be wrong until we figure things out. Now due to lack of credibility very few are vaccinating and a lot of vulnerable people are not mitigating. More people are being impaired and dying than need be, we are going to have diseases coming back that were thought killed off, and we are going to be in big trouble once the next pandemic hits because mitigation measures won’t be enacted or ignored if they are.


No, I actually agree with you. To clarify any confusion: Regardless of how someone feels about Trump (or any other POTUS), I think the lock-downs would have happened regardless. I'm not talking about the man in power, who just happened to be Trump; I think tyrannical COVID lock-downs would have happened the same under Obama before or Biden after. The virus just happened to come about under Trump.

And I'm not even saying the lock-downs were good or bad. I'm simply saying that the COVID lock-downs were, for better-or-worse, the most tyrannical and restrictive period in American history ever (ditto for many other countries). And I think it coincided with Trump's presidency, but would have unfolded the same under Biden, or before under Obama, W. Bush...I don't actually blame the POTUS himself (Trump or whoever) because, as you said, the power wasn't (and has never been) solely in the president's hands for something like that.



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23 Feb 2024, 7:27 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Wrong.

Something like 70% of Canada's trade comes from the USA.

Not to sound simplistic, but...so what?? It's like dependency on Middle East oil. OPEC has many of us by the you-know-what. Until we don't have to deal with them, and so long as we need their oil, problems there will be problems for everyone who trades with them.

If Canada is so dependent on the US for its economy, well, quite frankly, you're theoretically able to go some place else. Until then, you have to deal with whatever happens politically (just as dealing with OPEC and Middle East problems). Look up dependency and ask yourself why your country is so dependent in the first place.

goldfish21 wrote:
American economic policies affect us big time.

Yes, dependency.

goldfish21 wrote:
So do many other laws - even firearms ones. Most of the guns used in crimes in Canada are smuggled from the USA, for example.

The USA also has to deal with a problematic neighbor to the south, called Mexico. While their leniency towards roving migrants from points further south affects the US, the USA can't control the politics of a sovereign Mexico. Likewise, Canada cannot control the politics of a sovereign USA.

Of course, I think the USA has more muscle room it can be flexing with Mexico. Canada has no such luxury with the USA.

goldfish21 wrote:
Also, the BS culture wars stuff spills across the border via media airwaves, so we get people being racist jerks or transphobic bigots thanks to trumplestiltskin and the fringe right faux news culture war propaganda nonsense. Canada is right next door to the USA.. when hate crimes rise in the USA because the orange guy gives people the social license to be terrible, similar things happen here.

And so on. Unfortunately the American president does have a lot of influence over other countries citizens' daily lives.

So, you're saying many of your countrymen are weak-minded simpletons who take directives from a man who actually has no political power over them?? Sounds like a problem for YOUR country. Honestly.



magz
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23 Feb 2024, 8:02 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
magz wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
While the POTUS is a powerful individual, if someone lives in a developed first-world country other than the USA, then it really makes no difference who the POTUS is. It will have a very minimal impact on their lives.

Sure, you can argue that in third-world or volatile countries it matters, if a POTUS wants to bomb or sanction someone. But for America's first-world allies, it really has no effect on their lives.

Wrong.
NATO East Flank here.


No. Not wrong.

Please don't be offended, but I still consider Poland to be a second-world country. Any of the former Soviet or Iron Curtain countries are still second-world.

That's why I didn't simply say "developed country," I clarified with first-world. Excluding your second-world country which doesn't apply, I stand by everything I've said.

If you're interested in the Cold War terms, you should consider Sweden Third World. But it's history.
If you're interested in current geopolitics or human development index, update your maps.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... -countries

"First world" meant USA-alignment, democracy and mostly capitalist economy.
"Second world" meant USSR-alignment, one-party communist regime and mostly planned economy.
Poland was second world. 35 years ago.


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ezbzbfcg2
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23 Feb 2024, 8:42 am

magz wrote:
If you're interested in the Cold War terms, you should consider Sweden Third World. But it's history.
If you're interested in current geopolitics or human development index, update your maps.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... -countries

"First world" meant USA-alignment, democracy and mostly capitalist economy.
"Second world" meant USSR-alignment, one-party communist regime and mostly planned economy.
Poland was second world. 35 years ago.


The Cold War never really ended, evidenced by referring to Poland as a "NATO East Flank" country. It's still the second-world. Sweden was never communist, is developed, is first-world.

These terms aren't hard to understand, despite a political desire to pretend they're not true. You're only proving my point. "NATO East Flank Country" essentially means second-world country that joined NATO when the Iron Curtain fell and is still at risk of falling under Russian imperialism yet again.

For actual developed first-world countries other than the USA, the POTUS has no bearing on their day-to-day lives.