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TheNet
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12 Nov 2024, 8:23 am

Why are so many people both of these things?



bee33
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12 Nov 2024, 9:12 am

Because these are specific issues chosen by the political right to be hot-button issues to which people have a knee-jerk reaction. All a politician has to do is mention one of these issues and people get stirred up, and those on the right will get stirred up to support one side and demonize the other.



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12 Nov 2024, 10:29 am

It's funnier to say it as "Pro life, pro gun"
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12 Nov 2024, 10:32 am

To people who hold these views, they are both seen as rights. Right to Life and Right to Bear Arms.


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ToughDiamond
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12 Nov 2024, 12:58 pm

People aren't especially rational, consistent, or even thoughtful, on the whole. Nor are they particularly geared up to higher social motives. I think they're mostly about self-interest. It may be that the autistic mind does better in those respects, but I've seen instances where some of them don't. At least, that's my interpretation. But not being necessarily all that rational myself, I'm not sure I'd know.



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12 Nov 2024, 1:11 pm

Yeah, I think politics are largely centered around (perceived) self-interest although there’s also buzzwords that tend to turn off critical thought. When the topic of gun control comes up, they reference the Second Amendment as if the Constitution is a sacred document that can’t be questioned. It’s very culty.


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13 Nov 2024, 8:10 pm

TheNet wrote:
Why are so many people both of these things?

I prefer to think of myself as Pro-Death


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Ursula
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13 Nov 2024, 9:44 pm

The mafia was depicted as criminals, but if we isolate the case of when justice system fails a victim, when one takes matters into their own hands,
Is there a prosecutor who would have mercy? I feel safer knowing others don't have guns, but then legal system must be fixed. A new complexity where a lawyer is scrutinised for getting evil doers off the hook.
But it's worse, the time to get to court means honest civilians don't have rights. A rental tribunal just sorting out civil disputes takes so long, if justice.
What about those who use money and legal fees to end cases against them,

Honestly America is more interested in researching consumer preferences and invading personal privacy than concentrating on making lives of honest civilians, fair.



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13 Nov 2024, 10:28 pm

I'm very much in favor of the right to keep and bear firearms. I grew up with them and am very comfortable with them.

The real problem is not firearms, it is having a society that doesn't punish those who use them illegally. It is a people issue, not a firearm issue.

There are also people who think that carrying a firearm makes them a "big man" or something. It really just shows that they are trying to convince others of something that they are not. Anytime you see some twit prancing with a firearm in a holster, they are really saying "Look at me. See what a big and important man I am."

There can be practical reasons to openly carry a firearm. For example, around the farm. There have been occasions when it would have been good if someone was carrying. For example, I was once attacked by a large sow when it saw me between her and one of her pigs. She came after me at a full run and I took off at a full run for the fence. Hurdling that fence was the best hurdle of my life. If I hadn't made the hurdle, that sow would have gone after me and my only chance would have been if someone was there with a firearm to shoot it. Unfortunately, I was the only one out there that day and it would have easily killed me.

But the left has it all wrong on guns. Guns are not the problem, people are.

On the other hand, I'm pretty ambivalent about abortions. As far as I'm concerned, it should be a medical issue.


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13 Nov 2024, 11:18 pm

bee33 wrote:
Because these are specific issues chosen by the political right to be hot-button issues to which people have a knee-jerk reaction. All a politician has to do is mention one of these issues and people get stirred up, and those on the right will get stirred up to support one side and demonize the other.


There are SEVERAL problems with your assertion!
1. Guns or equivalents have been around for THOUSANDS of years!
2. Abortion was ALSO frowned on for a LONG time!
3. They DON'T stir up the right. And the left does a GREAT job of demonizing themselves. They don't need ANY help from the right.

The bible says children are to be cherished, and weapons may be needed.

HEY, if you want to sterilize yourself, and forget about self defense, HAVE AT IT! I for one WON'T stop you.

Sterilization is now even an easy option for women!



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14 Nov 2024, 12:55 am

I have nothing against firearms per se, I had a long arm license which allowed me to use bolt action and self loading rifles, even a cannon up to 40mm.
I agree with Ozzie restrictions on handguns, concealable firearms and fully automatic firearms. I think that is where the USA needs to go.
I can't see why a right to bear arms should automatically include rocket launchers and assault weaponry.



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14 Nov 2024, 1:34 am

kokopelli wrote:
There can be practical reasons to openly carry a firearm. For example, around the farm. There have been occasions when it would have been good if someone was carrying. For example, I was once attacked by a large sow when it saw me between her and one of her pigs. She came after me at a full run and I took off at a full run for the fence. Hurdling that fence was the best hurdle of my life. If I hadn't made the hurdle, that sow would have gone after me and my only chance would have been if someone was there with a firearm to shoot it. Unfortunately, I was the only one out there that day and it would have easily killed me.

For reasons like what you detail above, rural people tend to be pro-gun. Rural people need guns to protect themselves from being mauled by either farm animals or wild predators.

On the other hand, most of us city folks feel safer in the absence of guns.

I see gun control as a rural vs. urban issue rather than as a right vs. left issue per se.

Rural people are also more likely to be right wingers, for other reasons.


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14 Nov 2024, 3:02 am

Carbonhalo wrote:
I have nothing against firearms per se, I had a long arm license which allowed me to use bolt action and self loading rifles, even a cannon up to 40mm.
I agree with Ozzie restrictions on handguns, concealable firearms and fully automatic firearms. I think that is where the USA needs to go.
I can't see why a right to bear arms should automatically include rocket launchers and assault weaponry.


About thirty years ago, I worked with a guy from Australia who grew up on a farm there. He said that they had a license for a rifle and kept it locked up in a secure box.

When I asked him how easy it would be to get it out to defend himself, he said that if he shot a criminal with it, he would be the one go to prison, not the criminal.

We don't need Australian approaches to firearms in the US.


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bee33
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14 Nov 2024, 4:19 am

There is absolutely no excuse for having a gun in modern society. It is a very grave danger that has little to no upside. The likelihood of successfully using a gun in self defense is infinitesimal. There is a much greater likelihood that it will be used to unjustly kill or even more likely in a suicide.

The statistics are that less than 1% of gun deaths are in legitimate self defense, 2% are accidents, one third are homicides and two thirds are suicides.

If you care about the lives of your fellow humans and your own life and the lives of your family members you will shun guns and advocate for their strict control so that almost no one will have them.

I'm sick of the lies from the pro-gun crowd.



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14 Nov 2024, 12:43 pm

Carbonhalo wrote:
I have nothing against firearms per se, I had a long arm license which allowed me to use bolt action and self loading rifles, even a cannon up to 40mm.
I agree with Ozzie restrictions on handguns, concealable firearms and fully automatic firearms. I think that is where the USA needs to go.
I can't see why a right to bear arms should automatically include rocket launchers and assault weaponry.


Fun fact: a rocket launcher would be classified as destructive device and isn't allowed to American civilians.


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14 Nov 2024, 4:48 pm

bee33 wrote:
There is absolutely no excuse for having a gun in modern society. It is a very grave danger that has little to no upside. The likelihood of successfully using a gun in self defense is infinitesimal. There is a much greater likelihood that it will be used to unjustly kill or even more likely in a suicide.

The statistics are that less than 1% of gun deaths are in legitimate self defense, 2% are accidents, one third are homicides and two thirds are suicides.

If you care about the lives of your fellow humans and your own life and the lives of your family members you will shun guns and advocate for their strict control so that almost no one will have them.

I'm sick of the lies from the pro-gun crowd.


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If you don't want firearms, nobody is making you acquire some. We leave you alone. You leave us alone.


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