Atheism and autism

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can you put your sexuality on the table, yes or no?
ah, so you're completely lazy, not just intellectually. how tragic.

at least i'm not a bigot. leave me alone. we disagree. you're never going to get me to believe in evolution leave me alone.

you are actually a bigot, and I will leave you alone, despite your nonsense arguments and dumbass strawmen.

big·ot·ed
ˈbiɡədəd/
adjective
having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

I do not hold my belief to be superior to tothers now do i have an intolerance of others opinions i ask that evoultion be an option ot banned or removed or illegal. I am fine with others beleiving in evoultion as long as they don't push it on others. forcing all kids to learn it regardless of if they want ot is forcing your beliefs on others.

you think your idea atheism and evolution are superior to religious beliefs, you are intolerant of religious beliefs of others. you meet the definition not me.

advocating that gay people be treated like second class citizens is bigotry. dismantling your flawed arguments isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
In British English it refers to a state of mind where a person is obstinately, irrationally, or unfairly intolerant of ideas, opinions, or beliefs that differ from their own, and intolerant of the people who hold them.[1][2]
In American English, the term can be used similarly; however, it can also be used to refer to intolerance towards a group of people in general based on their group characteristics such as race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, and socioeconomic status.

only like 25% of relgious people would refuse to serve gays. how many of them own shops? like 2% so you're looking at a small portion of business. that isn't treating them like 2nd class citzens. just like allowing gays to refuse anti gay people and blacks to refuse kkk members doesn't make any of them 2nd class citizens. I would not refuse gays and I support gay mariage, i just suport the right of people to not violate their religous beliefs which are protected by the bill of rights.

violating one's rights to protect anothers rights isn't good. if all cake shops refused to serve gays that would be a problem but its not its 1 cake place out of millions of cake places. they could gone to another shop. they wanted attention. i get refused i just go to another store that does the same thing. i dont' shop at Starbucks, i go to dutch brothers who doens't discriminate based on gun ownership. starbucks and every business has a right o keep to their morals and bleifs. you don't understand that these Christians believe they will go to hell if they support gay marriage they dont' want to go to hell. now whether i share that belief or not i don't' think we should force anyone to violate it.

should pastors and churches be forced to do gay weddings? should a gun shop be forced to seel to a kkk member wearing a rob and a Nazi swastika? what if they just had racist tatoos? wheres the limit?

do you also believe that Romney if elected would have removed women's rights as part of the war on eowmen and forced women into slavery and back into the kitchen?

Sly:

You're okay. I'm okay.

You're not an atheist. I am an atheist.

You're into guns. I'm not that much into guns.

We all have opinions. That's just the way it is.

There are people who like to BAIT people.

All you have to do is present your opinion.

You have a right to your opinion.

Forget about people who attack.

And don't attack back.

Just express your opinion.

yes it is, and where are you getting 25% and 2% from?you're conflating religion with hateful symbols.I agree, which is why religion should not be present in business ventures, it's counterproductive.where are you getting "one out of a million"?
(since you conveniently ignored it the first time around)
Weddings are done at the courthouse, the church is just for show.

Sly has a lot of strawmen, not a lot in the way of opinion :/

Where's the limit? The limit is that you can't refuse to sell a product to one person that you sell to another person based on your or their beliefs.

Churches are not legal businesses so this does not apply to them and they may refuse to perform marriage services as they deem fit. But for businesses, not ok.

I'm glad you brought up the KKK since just such a case came up (baker, not gun shop, why is it always bakeries?). The Grand Wizard of the KKK won a lawsuit against a baker who refused to sell him a cake for a KKK function (no mention of derogatory icing messages or he would have lost the suit). There's goes you argument that this is favoritism to the Left.

http://tribuneherald.net/2013/08/23/kkk-wins-lawsuit-against-bakery-for-discrimination/



The baker who lost the suit, Bailey, said this:


Uh no. It's not a sad day when bigots have to be treated equally by law. It is the very heart of equal rights before the law. Rights that only get applied to people you like are not rights at all.

hairdresser refused to serve anti gay politician. the left, all hate news media praised them. they should have condemned them for discriminating. that is the one that sticks out the most it happen right around he same time the cake thing did.

what you're saying is its stop doing your business and starve to death or go to hell?

from what I understand churches pay business taxes don't they?

I don't' think the gov should be able to force someone just because they own a business to break their religious laws. they believe for a fact that doing so they will be condemned to hell forever. you don't believe in hell so be it , but for those who do they don't' want to go there. what do you propose they do. put yourself in their shoes(idk that you can though)
its a very serious thing to them. its not simply they don't' like gays so they don't' want to serve them its if they do they go to hell. i bet they'd made a none wedding cake for gays.

I'm very pro freedom of choice, freedom from being forced to break your morals. I don't think we should force people to stop smoking or disallow people from getting abortions. I don't think taxes are forced. one can move out, most people who complain of taxes are well off. every nation taxes though i suppose if they really hate it they can go frontier in Alaska like others have done. but forcing someone to do something that is so very very against their core beliefs is
wrong.
there has to be some level of balance between protecting civil rights and protecting other rights. it sucks to be fufused service but theirs other shops. if you get banned from Safeway you can go to albertsons. from what I saw those bakers dont' hate gay people they just believe gay marriage is a sin one of the worse sins. and to help someone sin is a sin. I've talked to super Christians ones who think like this but worse the ones who think they must convert you must save us from sins that to fail to save us is a sin.

if i may ask why did the gay couple go to a christian bakery? they probably knew this would happen. i wonder if they just wanted the attention. there's tons of bakeries nearly ever grocery store has a bakery.

why can't we just find a balance. weddings is a religious thing to many people. its not the same as outright hating gays and kicking them out of every christian owned business. that would be wrong.

I find myself in the middle of most issues.

you asked that question earlier yet claimed i was attacking you when I answered. are you sure you want to discuss this?

I googled the story and was surprised that there were no legal repercussions for the hairdresser. It looks like the exact same type of discrimination (based on belief) that the KKK Grand Wizard won a case against a baker for. Perhaps the politician didn't want to file a lawsuit??

In any case you are right about the tone of the Left reportage. It is positive and in favor. The exceptions seem to be in the comments section to the articles and there seems to be a small minority of Left people not celebrating this. Count me in on that small Left minority. If discrimination is bad, it's bad across the board and it doesn't suddenly become good when it's your favored group that is doing the discriminating against your unfavored group.



That's not what I'm saying. They aren't going to go to hell and the law shouldn't be written as though that were a possibility. The claim from a business owner that they'll go to hell if they aren't allowed to discriminate is not legally defensible. Discriminating because of the other person's beliefs is also not legally defensible (I don't think, any lawyers out there?) and I kinda wish the politician had brought a lawsuit. This should not be encouraged by the Left. I have a suspicion that some members of the Left have conflated it with legal and defensible boycotting. Or maybe I'm being too generous because they're "my team". In any case, not ok. And as far as I know, not legal.



They pay business taxes if they are running a business affiliated with the church. The examples google found for me were restaurants. I guess some churches have restaurants. I did not know that. They wouldn't be allowed to discriminate on who they serve in the restaurant. But the marriage ceremonies are separate from whatever business they run and not subject to the anti-discrimination laws that apply to business.



This would be the government condoning the concept of hell legally which would violate separation of church and state. You can have your own beliefs and practice them. But you can't use those beliefs as a justification to discriminate, no matter how fervently you believe the discrimination is justified by your religion.

First, churches (as of right now) do not pay taxes. They are tax-exempt organizations. Granted, there are some atheists speaking out against this and trying to change that law. But, right now, they do not pay taxes. Pastors in the US are not required to officiate gay weddings if they feel it violates their religious convictions. Churches are not required to host gay weddings. As long as it stays this way, things are OK. If people start wanting to change the law to make it so that not officiating a gay wedding is a hate crime, THEN we have real problems.

Christians who want to open a business need to consider the implications before opening up. Seriously. I would say the same for Muslims, Jews, whoever. If you don't want to do business with everyone, don't run a business. There's a reason it's called the public square. Jesus taught his followers to love their "enemies". I don't consider gay people my enemies, but for the sake of argument lets say they are. We are to love them anyway! Is it love to refuse to bake a cake? Jesus was not one to demand his rights!! ! A Christian running a business has an opportunity to show love to the community. Ummm... If they aren't on board with that, I have to wonder about their beliefs.

There is a Christian couple around here that opened a coffeeshop. Guess what? They decided to open on Sunday morning because they were asked to. I don't know what is more "unchristian" (I'm being a bit sarcastic here) than being open for business on a Sunday morning. These people have to miss church all the time so they can run their little store. But you know what? They are serving the community. Christ did nothing if he didn't model being a servant.

Humility, humility, humility.

If a Christian breaks the law, he or she better be ready to suffer the consequences. Christians should not get a free pass because they are Christians. If the law says they've got to bake a cake for the gay couple, then bake the darn cake or pay the fine! If the law is unjust, take it up with God. Pray about it. But bake the cake or pay the fine! Don't whine! Peter and John, in the book of Acts, were imprisoned because they preached about Jesus, which was against the law. They knew it was against the law and did it anyway. So they went to jail. And they went to jail willingly because they willingly broke the law.

We have a way of dealing with laws here. We try to change laws through the people we elect to Congress. We live in a pluralistic society. That is the end of the matter. If the people decide that they don't want a primarily Christian nation anymore and want to get rid of religious symbols and all that, there's not much we can do about it. Majority rules. Laws change as the society changes. Right or wrong, that's how it's been set up. If we want to see laws change, we can try and persuade people to join "our side" and elect people who will work to try and change the laws. But in the meantime, the laws are the laws.

The society has decided that marriage is a contract between two consenting adults. In a pluralistic society, this makes sense. The people who want it to be religious can still have a ceremony within whichever religion they are part of. But, as some people are not religious, they want marriage to be defined just as a contract. In this case, who can then say gay couples don't have the right to make this kind of contract? It does not matter if a Christian or some other religious person doesn't see this as a "real" marriage. A religious view of marriage is not the same as the legal view of marriage. I personally think they should be kept separate.

If Christians are treated unjustly, God will take care of it in the end. We don't have to go around fighting for ourselves. I think this is the *biggest* problem with Christians these days. They want the government to come to their defense and they feel the need to stick up for themselves and their own rights, etc. instead of trusting God in whatever happens. This is NOT the model of Jesus.

In the USA, right now we still have our freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The government is still required to butt out of religious institutions. The government can't come in and tell my church how to structure itself or what beliefs we can hold to. And even the IRS has been required to approve some pretty weird "churches."

I hope it does not come to the place where atheists will try to shut down religion altogether (though I know some are promoting that.) BUT EVEN IF IT HAPPENS... I am not afraid. What can man do to me? Can anything be worse than it was for the early Christians who were thrown to the lions in the Colosseum or martyred in countless other ways?

If there's a God, there is Justice. No worries. In the meantime, follow the law. If you must follow your conscience and, in so doing break the law, courageously face the consequences. That's my advice to Christians.

I refuse to just lay down and be slaughter. god won't defends us from them, he gave all of us free will which includes them being able to attack us. anything that happens down here is up to us. so its on us to defend our rights and freedoms. businesses shouldn't be able to discriminate at all then. so if a guy walks in shirt less they should still have to serve him.
it should be no discrimination which means serving anyone and everyone regardless no excuses. if a guy walks in nude they should serve him at the same time call the cops. while he is breaking the law they shouldn't' discriminate by not serving him. they shouldn't' be able to kick people out for disusing stuff they disagree with. so if a bunch of guys go in and talk about guns they shouldn't be allowed to ask them to leave. they paid and have every right to talk about whever they want to. it seems like only gays and blacks rights matter in this PC nation. why is there a all black channel, all black only colleges, all black movie channel. isn't that discrimination?
what about businesses in Hawaii that make whites leave what they call their local only business? its either all equal or all free game. one can't pick which group should be protected and screw the others.

that hair dresser was never fined, they were praised by the left for doing the same thing the cake bakers were finded for.

I will never run a business then. if I have to serve everyone even people who hate me. freak that. you should have some right of what to do with your business its your money spent on it you're the one that has everything to lose. if someone doesn't want to serve me because of my belief or gun ownership thats fine with me, its their lose, they won't get my money. I'll take it to another shop. that's how markets should work. theres a whole lot of gay people so thers going be people who want their money. other people have this happen and don't sue and make a big media craze out of it. there will always be discrimination of some kind at some small level as long as people are not the exact same. someone will treat them a little different for it. its human nature.

look why can't white people wear Asian clothes? why is it wrong? isn't it discrimination to say they can't? how about how some car lots won't sell sports call to poorer people even if they have the money because they aren't sports car people. theres all kinds of discrimination I don't see people trying to fix it all.

I really don't care.

also as for not paying the fine, its called civil disobedience. when you see a just law you break it, and take the punishment then later fight it in the courts after enough people get punished. remember the sit ins and the 60s same thing.

I say good for them. though personally I think its fine if gays get married, I don't think someone should be forced to help them marry if they don't want to. just as I don't think a gay should have to serve someone who hates gays.

also these people only pay attention to the old testament, so what Jesus would do doesn't matter. super Christians are more into the vengeful mean god of the old testament. the church I went to as a kid was more about the new testament. which is why I am more about loving and accepting others. pastors son married a woman from a super christian faimly , they hate smokers, because they say smoking is a sin. they hate most people because somehow or another they've sinned. theres so many sins int he old testament, but they are forgiven by Jesus, he died on the cross for that. people like that think you must repent immediately after ever sin, if you die before you can you go to hell. so if you said God damint then got hit by a car one second later. you go to hell even if you were a perfect non sinner up until that point.
I was taught that when you die, you will have a chance to ask for forgiveness and if you mean it be forgiven. may be wrong they may be right. impossible to know only god can decide. that's why I don't think gay is a sin. god made them gay, why would god make them wrong? I don't see how people can see gays as a sin if god made them that way, are they not now judging gods plans? only God can decide if one has sinned or not, only he can judge. those super Christians believe they have the right to judge others not God. I think they've lost their ways if you ask me.