Trump or Hillary

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If Trump were to get the nomination then it would account for a political revolution and would be the end of the Republican Party as we know it. In the long run, the establishment Republicans just like the DLC Democrats will all get swept away.

A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I arrived at my opinion without the help of John Birch or the tea party. Unlike yourself, I can think independently and arrive at my own conclusions without consulting the party to see what my opinions should be.

Roosevelt had no choice but to stand against fascism. By the end of 7 Dec. 41 the country was going to go to war, with him or with someone else. It was out of his hands and he knew it so he jumped on the bandwagon minutes after the last bomb fell to save his own presidency. If he had really been worth a s**t he would have nipped the nips in the bud before things got that far out of hand. He only went to war with the third reich to help his buddy and mentor Joe Stalin as well as pressure from the American public.

Executive action, defined and delimited by … nothing you care to mention. Your second sentence contradicts your first. And what do you think grants them that "right"?



I'm not Lincoln's biggest fan, but I'm willing to cut him some slack for actions taken while enemy troops were within a few hours' march of DC, and the future of the country was in literal peril. (Just as if my house is actually on fire I welcome any passerby to break in, after calling the fire department of course, and try to save my family.) When the situation is not that desperate – and it's never been that desperate since – yes, I do want my government to operate within the strictures of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Otherwise it's anything goes. If the President can operate outside the Constitution whenever he feels it's the right thing to do, why bother having a Constitution at all? Might as well crown an Emperor and be done with it. The rule of objective law, or absolute power corrupting absolutely: you've made it clear which you advocate.

Keeping it strictly theoretical, and not personal, what exactly would it mean for an individual to live according to the premise that laws, vows, contracts, moral principles are "living" and "fluid"?

1. You're driving to a meeting and running a bit late. It's not a life-or-death matter, you're not taking someone to a hospital, but this meeting is important. So you step on it and go ninety. Highway patrolmen should just wave you by, since obviously you wouldn't risk everybody's life like that unless it was genuinely important. It's not as if traffic laws were carved in stone!

2. You manage some financial accounts at work, and one day it occurs to you that you could embezzle quite a tidy sum and probably not get caught. The owner is a zillionaire, he won't miss the money, and you could really use it. So you steal. Why not? It feels like the right thing to do!

3. There's a cute new secretary at work, and it's clear that she finds you attractive. Why not have an affair, you think? Your wife will never find out, and you deserve to have a little extra pleasure in your life. Wouldn't want to be fundamentalist about those old wedding vows!

Sadly, I've known people who lived according to such premises, at least as far as they could get away with it. I wouldn't knowingly hire such a person to mow my lawn. It amazes me that some people want to live under a government run on such principles, or lack of principles.

We have diverse goals.

Democrats just want to lie and win.

The main Republican goal is to overthrow the Party leadership. Winning could be good, but we have no chance of winning the future with fake Christians and the bribes for jobs lot.

They make Democrats look respectable.

Perhaps I am living in a world of total delusion, I think there could be some time when hairless ground apes do less dumb things, and just by the odds, they should get something right sometime, even a stopped clock!

It is iffy. Governor Abbot of Texas has proposed a Constitutional Convention. The Founding Fathers were good, but they left out, do not do stupid. They held some truths to be self evident, they underestimated the power of stupid.

If Congress wants to spend money, they have to raise taxes. They are now $21 Trillion beyond common sense.

Common Sense was also not mentioned in the Constitution.

As an exercise in Civics, the nations Sixth Graders who will get stuck with the bill, should reply to acts of government, before they can take effect. It is the Emperor is naked test. If you cannot convince sixth graders, you should not be allowed to make laws.

Republican Party members have come up with some very good thinking over the years. It is understood that Democrats do not like thinking, but it was the Republican leadership that blocked the ideas from even being brought up and discussed.

Nixon proposed National Health Care. Both the Democrats and Republicans were taking donations from the Medical and Insurance lobbies. It was never brought up for public debate. Lots of years go by when we had nothing, then the current bad program of insurance welfare.

We could have had boring medical like Canada and the UK forty years ago.

The enemies of good government are the political parties and the people who work there.

If I was a citizen I wouldn't vote for either.

Hillary is a populist, Trump is also a populist.

I don't even share Bernie Sanders's politics but at least he has stood by his principles.

I find it odd that so many Democrats are keen to get behind Hillary. You guys seem to love these political families. Bill wasn't all bad but time to move on.

Hillary changed her tune on Gay Marriage just as public opinion switched. She changed her tune on Iraq just as public opinion switched. I don't think what you see is what you get.

Trump is simply a moron, who wouldn't last a full term. He is trying to pretend he is not corporate, and never done the collusionary practices of multi-nationals. He is also bluffing about having credibility on China. They would flatten him. The idea that he could bring it to them, and come out in a better position is laughable.

He strikes me as the type that would just quit after a while in office when he couldn't do do everything he wanted when he wanted. Maybe he'd just get bored with it and quit all the sudden. He also has no background holding political office. As much disdain as I have for politicians in general, at least with them you can look at thier record and see what they voted for/against and which bills they have introduced/sponsored. That would be the true measure of what they are made of, good or bad. Wth someone like Trump all we have to go by is what he says which is all talk without substance.

Hillary belongs in a federal prison. Lord knows the crimes she would commit as president and get away with. Not to mention that she's a world class b***h and treats those under her like s**t. She might actually make history by being the first president to be killed by a Secret Service agent. People can only f*****g take so much arrogance, abuse, and assholery from one person then SNAP!. The SS even hated her as first lady so go figure.

Old Bernie would certainly be the lesser evil of the two but his politics are too far left for me. If he were libertarian leaning he'd get my vote even though he's a democrat. I'm not nearly as partisan as SOME people we have here.

Presidential election choices are always so dismal and depressing.
With me it always comes down to is asking myself this question:
"Which one of these stupid worthless coxuckers will do the least amount of damage for this next four year period?"

It sucks!

Trump does have a track record. I just watched video of him testifying before Congress, about how the tax law changes of mid 1980s, ending tax shelters and cutting top tax rates lead directly to the real estate and banking collapse of 1990.

He was not only right, the committee agreed with him, but his predictions about the future of the economy were also right. Resolution Trust was selling assets for five cents on the dollar.

Trump was right about Bin Lauden before 9/11.

Trump was right about stay out of Iraq, if we weaken them Iran will take over.

Trump was right about trade, Free Trade is not Fair Trade, in 1990.

He has a consistent record of speaking out and being shown to be right.

He said the tax law should promote investing in America with rewards. Mid 80s top taxes were 50-60%, with tax sheltered investments, that could be reduced to 20-25%.

A Member of Congress replied, that a bank in his district ran an ad, for car loans, then offered a 1% lower rate for buying American, they did a booming business.

Government Economic Policy directly affects the business economy.

Our economic problems, Trade, Banking, Employment, can be directly connected to government changing laws. NAFTA, Deregulation of Banks and Brokers, lead to jobs being shipped abroad, the biggest housing bubble and economic collapse.

Congress was bribed to pass laws that removed all incentive to invest in America.

Trump also pointed out that multi million dollar deals done between the best real estate developers and the best banks became worthless and bankrupt when the tax laws were changed after the money had been spent. Done deals were not grandfathered in under the rules at the time they were done, and that had a lot to do with banks failing in the late 80s. A four million dollar asset pledged for a three million dollar loan, then became a million dollar asset, and by banking rules, they had to demand more be put up to secure the loan. developers went bankrupt, quickly followed by banks.

Trump has a Wharton School of Finance Degree. He is one of our best educated in how taxes affect the business climate. Congress is not, but they are passing laws just to see what happens.

When your vehicle breaks down you do not take it to a faith healer, church, or pool hall, only a mechanic will fix the problem.

Trump says it is time to drain and flush all of your crankcases, and replace with fresh oil.

Hillary isn't getting my vote, she's indebted to corporate interests and everybody knows it. The whole notion that this is inevitable and that we should pick her because she at least gives lip-service to our ideals is offensive. If the DNC insists on forcing her down our throats, I'm just going to write Bernie in and if Trump ends up winning, so be it.

unfortunately, if I don't vote for the lesser of two evils [Hillary], that means there is a 1-vote-greater chance that the greater of two evils will win.

Err no. He was broadly supportive of Iraq initially, he may have changed his tune sooner rather then latter but he still changed his tune. Bernie at least was consistent from the the start. I don't have a problem with Trump changing his mind, we all should be able to do that. However he is trying to claim that he was like that from the beginning.

Thing is he speaks is such a vague way it is difficult to know his real position on anything. That is deliberate. When you have lack of substance, talk vague.

How was he right on Bin Laden?

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 10 Jan 2016, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't it a bit early to be treating it like a contest between Hillary and Trump?

I recon there will be a late attack on Trump from the right. However both sides need to get their act together.

Trump is educated in the school of BS. Remember Trump University? Total con.

The Rump reminds me of that story about how debating him is like playing chess with a pidgeon, who just knocks over all the pieces, craps all over the board then preens and struts about like he won.

Transcribed by a friend. People made fun of the elder Bush for talking in sentence fragments.

that reminds me of one of lily tomlin's characters on "laugh-in."