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Why do people still blame communism?

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RushKing
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22 May 2013, 2:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.



The_Walrus
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22 May 2013, 2:56 pm

RushKing wrote:
In a society where compulsory labor is eliminated, all you have left is play.

Unfortunately, labour is what provides us with food, water, clothes, and all the benefits of electricity. Labour keeps the streets clean, the bins empty, and the sewage system in working order. Even if you had robots to do all the work (which would require massive amounts of electricity), you'd need people to maintain the robots. There is no way labour can be eliminated. Sure, some people enjoy some labour, but it is a fantasy to create a society where everybody enjoys all the labour they have to do.



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22 May 2013, 3:05 pm

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


But that is the failure of your reasoning. It depends on conditions that do not, have not, and likely will never exist.

For man to no longer have to work, we must create a SLAVE CLASS, either organic or synthetic, to do all things for us. If you create something organic, you are making humans go back to the practice of slavery.

If it is synthetic, then the next question is if you need functional AI to make it work. If so, you again make humanity go back to the practice of slavery.

If there is no functional AI, I don't know if you could make enough machines to do all that needs to be done without humans having to do repairs and design new machines...which again requires humans to work.



Raptor
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22 May 2013, 3:28 pm

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.


Those two countries aren't communist.


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RushKing
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22 May 2013, 3:40 pm

Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.


Those two countries aren't communist.

Aragon and and a part of Ukraine was communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno



Raptor
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22 May 2013, 6:52 pm

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.


Those two countries aren't communist.

Aragon and and a part of Ukraine was communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno


Pitiful little examples and I see you refer to them only in the past tense.
Communism fails. PERIOD.


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androbot2084
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22 May 2013, 8:24 pm

Communism fails but the Confederacy lives.



Raptor
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22 May 2013, 8:35 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Communism fails but the Confederacy lives.


Where?


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22 May 2013, 8:39 pm

Conservative politics are popular in the South.



Raptor
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22 May 2013, 8:42 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Conservative politics are popular in the South.


More conservative than liberal in most of the south and in the rural west but the confederacy has been dead since 1865.


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RushKing
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22 May 2013, 10:39 pm

Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.


Those two countries aren't communist.

Aragon and and a part of Ukraine was communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno


Pitiful little examples and I see you refer to them only in the past tense.
Communism fails. PERIOD.

Communism has been successful economically every time it actually got tried. The failure of these communities was in defending themselves from invasion of the fascists and bolsheviks.



Raptor
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23 May 2013, 12:03 am

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Practical communism is what happened in Russia. There can be no other kind outside of your mind.

There is nothing practical about Marxist-lenninism, because power corrupts people. Statists are utopic, not me.


Then give us an example of one, just one, nation where communism has been successful without state sponsored oppression and terrorism.

Communism in aragon and ukraine. There is no such thing as state communism.


Those two countries aren't communist.

Aragon and and a part of Ukraine was communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno


Pitiful little examples and I see you refer to them only in the past tense.
Communism fails. PERIOD.

Communism has been successful economically every time it actually got tried. The failure of these communities was in defending themselves from invasion of the fascists and bolsheviks.


Your two examples have had time to re-institute communism if they thought it was that awesome.


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cubedemon6073
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25 May 2013, 1:56 pm

Quote:
No. We are born greedy and selfish - our wants are all about ourselves, and we have to be taught to share and express generosity.


I have a question. If this is so then how did humanity even get out of the caves? How did humanity even think of the idea of sharing and expressing generosity? Was it done because of practicality? How did our species evolve at all? What conditions favored us?



ruveyn
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25 May 2013, 2:47 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
No. We are born greedy and selfish - our wants are all about ourselves, and we have to be taught to share and express generosity.


I have a question. If this is so then how did humanity even get out of the caves? How did humanity even think of the idea of sharing and expressing generosity? Was it done because of practicality? How did our species evolve at all? What conditions favored us?


People helped their families and extended families and were not so helpful to strangers. Since humans existed in small extended family groups for most of the time humans have been around it was no barrier to survival.

Kin altruism is a pro-survival characteristic. Being careful of stranger is also pro-survival.

ruveyn



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25 May 2013, 5:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
No. We are born greedy and selfish - our wants are all about ourselves, and we have to be taught to share and express generosity.


I have a question. If this is so then how did humanity even get out of the caves? How did humanity even think of the idea of sharing and expressing generosity? Was it done because of practicality? How did our species evolve at all? What conditions favored us?


People helped their families and extended families and were not so helpful to strangers. Since humans existed in small extended family groups for most of the time humans have been around it was no barrier to survival.

Kin altruism is a pro-survival characteristic. Being careful of stranger is also pro-survival.

ruveyn[/quote

Ah, I see now Ruveyn what Fnord is talking about. I took him to literally is what happened.