Vermont Proposes Resolution To Ban ‘Corporate Personhood’

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1) Unions are incorporated. That which applies to corporations applies to them. It is only when you distinguish "companies" (which generally refers to corporations carrying on business for profit) from co-operatives, "societies" (or non-profit corporations--the nomenclature varies) and strata corporations (or condominium corporations) that corporations are distinguished from each other.

2) Who was only former union president to be elected President of the United States? Ronald Reagan. The Labour movement is not a monolithic voting bloc any more than business is. Where is the union heartland? Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania--all "battleground" states.

Now, you might argue that unions speak from the interests of their leadership, not their members. But business also speaks from the interests of its leadership, rather than its shareholders (who are members of the corporation, in traditional legal nomenclature). And who are the biggest investors in business? Pension plans. Who hold the largest pension plans? Unions.

It's a trifle disingenuous to draw cut and dried lines on these things.

Have any of you read any history at all?

For generations, since the founding of this country, our ancestors have fought tooth and nail for every single inch of freedoms we have as a people.
When this country was founded only wealthy, land owning, white men could vote.
That means all wealthy, land owning whites are created equal. If you are the black slave upon whose shoulders this country was built, an Indian from whom this country was taken, a woman from whom the people of this country were born, you were not at all equal to those who could vote.
Children all the way down into adolescence worked in sweat shops all day long for pennies. Women worked the same for slightly more. White men worked the same jobs for somewhat more than that. Indians, blacks, chinese...
they were used only as strikebreakers.
You know, to replace striking workers who wanted at least enough to feed their families in exchange for not knowing their families due to 14 plus hour days and damned near nothing to show for it.
And be careful, a strike is too successful and Mr. Corporation brings down its end in the form of national guard or state militia or police to come in and club, arrest, even kill those leading the strikes.


Most strikes ended with absolutely nothing gained, and much lost, for the strikers.
The people simply had no say whatsoever.


You wanna hate a socialist? Why dont you kiss goodbye the 8 hour work day, women suffrage, and social law after social law that you enjoy today.
Thats why they shut them down, read your history. Read the Peoples History of the United States and see for yourself before you go running those pie holes of lunacy on the front of your faces.
You people have no idea where we come from. You are angry because you are in bondage, and those in bondage tell you through Rush Limbaugh or Fox news, or CNN, or whoever, where to turn that anger, because it is there and it must be controlled. So they use it against the people themselves.
Because it is the exact people who keep you in bondage who decide what these talking heads are going to tell you next.
And you are traitors to the core of the word to hate the union, love the corporation, trust the powerful to govern their own greed.
Lets see how you feel when they come and take your guns after telling you its the other guy who is going to do it to you. Lets see how you feel when they come and take your house to build a mall, or a prison to hold those who would dare stand up to the corporate run government. Because cmon, we all know it hurts the corporation to have to bend to the needs of the people. And that hurts jobs. And jobs feed people.
Slaves.
Traitors.
Cowards.
Our children cannot afford your stupidity any longer.
Grow up and stop whining and take an honest look at how both parties play us to keep a few men in control of our lives, making only enough concession to placate us and keep the system, our bondage, intact.
I dont give a rats ass about the mafia corrupting the Union, about people in the union complaining too much about not having enough rights, etc... when 99 percent of the wealth is held by 4 percent of the people.
When 80 percent or more of the wealth in the world is old wealth, meaning its the same families over and over again and the american dream is a pipedream sold to keep us in check. A virtual impossibility.
You wanna get rid of the Union, get rid of our need for it first.

The last reform bill that the left tried to push through in response to the Supreme Court Decision, exempted unions from having to follow the new regulations, which was a reason why it didn't pass. I think the Vermont bill is similar to the one the Dems tried to push through in DC.

@ ShanonJames

Sarcasm: Yeah Joseph Stalin was a really good guy.

I'm not saying unions didn't once have a useful purpose, however they have now become extremely corrupt and are actually costing jobs in the United States. No one is saying we should do away with Child Labor laws or worker safety laws. For goodness sakes, where the heck did you come up with slavery anyways?!?!

If true, that is a problem. Unions and corporations should be subject to roughly the same rules, especially when it comes to buying politicians.

Of course, if you are a fan of democracy, it now virtually requires public financing of campaigns and strict spending limits, since otherwise the government simply belongs to the highest bidder.


What in his post references Stalin at all?


It makes little sense to support corporations while opposing unions (or vice versa). Supporting either over the other is blatant class warfare.


That sounded like overblown rhetoric. I'm astounded that you aren't able to recognize it.

We are not a Democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic.



He didn't have to, I was using Stalin as a reference in response to his post about how Socialism is so wonderful. It sure didn't work out that way in the Soviet Union.



It makes sense if you're trying to give your side a permanent propaganda advantage.


I know it was overblown rhetoric, I am calling him out on that fact.

We need more of this. I think the Right are just scared that they can't win the argument without outright financial bribery and they're right to be scared.

Sure whatever, just keep telling yourself that.

If you want to talk about corruption there is plenty in both parties, also Chicago is one of the most corrupt cities in the United States. The idea of blaming solely Conservatives is rather juvenile.

It's a good job i'm not advancing it then! I blame big corporate money for buying both parties enabling them to ignore the social needs of most americans.

Corporations usually try to play both sides, so they don't offend either party too badly. Unions donate almost exclusively to Democrats and thus Democrats are in the pocket of Unions.

The Democratic administration should have run a union agenda on most issues then. Where is the repeal of Nafta ?

So you're bad at poli sci, too? "Democracy" and "Republic" are not mutually exclusive terms. America's system is categorized as a constitutional republic, a liberal democracy, and a representative democracy (other classifications are also possible, but those are the main ones).


I was calling you out on your love for corporations and hatred for unions, but you apparently didn't realize that. I

Im sorry, it is hard not to get riled up when so much is going so wrong, lead by so few people, and so many are cheering them right on.

Your right, it just isnt fair that anyone should try to limit the power of the megawealthy people who pull the strings of the world with no concern with who is hurt.

I like this Monsanto commercial I am seeing on this website.

Americas Farmers grow etc....

Isn't that the guy who is crossing pigs with tomatoes? Isn't that the guy who's non reproducing seed, by law, is replacing God's seed? How nice. Now I cant even have seeds that reproduce as God intended. I have to pay some guy for his seed because his plants have replaced, with the help of lawmakers, all the natural plants.
And water. Do you know who is buying up all the water rights all over the country right now? Oil men.
Boon Pickins. The Bush's.
How again did the water get poisoned in just a couple of hundred years in this country for the first time in how many years previous. Oh thats right. The first time in the history of the planet. Oh yeah. Industry. Mass production and irresponsible fertilization. Industrial chemicals being dumped into it.
And while we all argue over whether the we are hurting the Earth, the corporations most responsible are gearing up to make a profit on it.
How long till we have to buy air to breathe? Im sorry, wasn't water free on this planet until this point? Is this how we evolve? By destroying everything we need to survive unnecessarily. Or wait, evolution is false. God put us here just as we are, knowing we were going to destroy it all. Luckily, Jesus is coming at the last minute so we can gamble it all away on that fact.

Once its all be turned into money for one percent of the population, and scraps of that money for the other 99 percent, and there is nothing left, then what?
Maybe technology will have made a way to live without it all, for a cost.

Do you not see that all that is sacred is being broken up and turned into power for a few people?

The water, the soil, the creatures, the air, the metals, Uranium, all of it.

Why is that OK?

Because what else is there? Its either this or Stalin.

Why not try what worked somehow? The Indigenous peoples of this world lived for thousands and thousands and thousands of years without doing a millionth of the damage. In fact, they existed as a part of it. Not exploiters of it.
Why not use what they had as a basis for what we build into the future?

Why is Monsanto the only choice?

Im sorry, what was wrong with Eden?

Nobody is saying that corporations should lose all the rights given to them by the assumption they are legal persons. I guess they should keep some.

But a right to privacy, for example is rather silly. Specially for stock-driven companies, it allows much abuse.

I think a legal middle ground should exist. It is true that we don't want companies to be so liable that nobody wants to invest. But they should be more liable than they are now, libertinage is not having many good ramifications.

I'm not going to mince word, we are a Constitutional Republic, meaning we elect representatives to represent us and have a document that is the law of the land. We are not a Democracy if you go be the literal definition. If we were a literal Democracy everyone would be voting on every major issue. I really could care less what Political Science majors say we are.

The only true Democracy ever to have existed was in Athens, Greece. Yes, some of the principles between Republics and Democracies are the same, but there are differences as well.



I'm actually kind of neutral, however we shouldn't allow one special interest group to donate money to campaigns (i.e. unions) and not allow another special interest group (i.e. corporation) to donate money. I would actually be in favor of both disclosing what they donated, if it wasn't for the fact that left wing groups would promptly target anyone sending money to a conservative campaign.

It's already happened in the past, even people receiving death threats over it.

"Elect representatives to represent us" is the definition of representative democracy, NOT republic. Republic has a much broader meaning which you are obviously ignorant of. I should not be surprised, given your overall weak understanding of history.


You are incorrect. That would be a direct democracy. Most democracies are not direct democracies, although many systems are mixed with the use of referenda and other ballot issues. A republic, in general, need not have elections to be categorized as such. America is both a democracy and a republic, though an imperfect example of either.


The two are not mutually exclusive. The qualifying traits to be considered a Republic are mostly to do with the structure of government (lack of a powerful monarch, established laws usually through a constitution of some form) while the defining characteristics of a Democracy have to do with who can be involved in government (all citizens).


Fair enough. I tend to think that whatever one is allowed to do, the other should also be permitted.


Right-wingers do the same. I remember one of my high school teachers telling us how his wife forbade him to shop at a hardware store that donated money to Planned Parenthood.

Republic. In Latin, res publica or public thing. Which is to say, that the power of the state either resides in or is derived from the people (collectively) acting as a body politic. Democratic representation is one means (among several) for the people to act as a body politic. A republic is contrasted to an absolute monarchy where the power of the State (or Realm) is vested in one person and the people are subject to his will. In an oligarchy the power of the State is vested in the few that constitute the ruling entity of the State. The oligarchs are not accountable to the people.

In a republic, the head of state or executive of the state (either singular or committee of some sort) is accountable to the people (acting in the capacity of a body politic). The accountability is often implemented as accountability under public law. In an absolute monarchy, the monarch is accountable to no human agency. Under the theory of Divine Right, the monarch is accountable only to God who granted to the monarch the authority to rule (or govern). In effect, the monarch is the surrogate of God under the doctrine of Divine Appointment. The voice of the monarch is the Voice of God (on Earth).

ruveyn