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LIBERAL CHRISTIAN GROUP: YOU MUST CHOOSE: AYN RAND OR…JESUS

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Whom do you choose?
Ayn Rand 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
Jesus 63%  63%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 19

pandabear
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14 Jun 2011, 10:19 am

Natty_Boh wrote:
Conceded that He was not conservative. Nor liberal. Political terms have no, or should have no, bearing on Christianity.


Ah, but this is America, where, I think, we have only one self-confessed atheist in Congress (from California, of course).



pandabear
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14 Jun 2011, 10:33 am

Here is Mrs. O'Connor herself, speaking on religion.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmac2fs5HQ[/youtube]

So, this particular "Loony-Left" group is absolutely correct: you can't be a follower of both Mrs. O'Connor (aka Ayn Rand) and Jesus.

If Republicans look at her, and commit adultery with her in their thoughts, then they are as good as bound for Hell.



simon_says
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14 Jun 2011, 11:48 am

Hard to say which has been more damaging. Both are part of larger traditions. Both spread a recycled message. Both were cult leaders.

The good thing with Rand is that modern media made her faults very obvious. Jesus only gets the glossy treatment.



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14 Jun 2011, 12:29 pm

pandabear wrote:
Natty_Boh wrote:
Conceded that He was not conservative. Nor liberal. Political terms have no, or should have no, bearing on Christianity.


Ah, but this is America, where, I think, we have only one self-confessed atheist in Congress (from California, of course).


Which shows that a wide range of political stances are compatible with Christianity...not that's stopped both major parties from glomming onto a number of positions that are screamingly INcompatible.


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14 Jun 2011, 12:33 pm

Natty_Boh wrote:
Conceded that He was not conservative. Nor liberal.

Right, he was a progressive.


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14 Jun 2011, 1:14 pm

pandabear wrote:
Here is Mrs. O'Connor herself, speaking on religion.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmac2fs5HQ[/youtube]

So, this particular "Loony-Left" group is absolutely correct: you can't be a follower of both Mrs. O'Connor (aka Ayn Rand) and Jesus.

If Republicans look at her, and commit adultery with her in their thoughts, then they are as good as bound for Hell.


My intense dislike For Rand has nothing to do with her atheism, as some of my favorite people are atheists - which includes posters in this forum. It's her heartlessness, and her notion that the poor should be allowed to die while only the strong should continue to live on, that makes me view her philosophy as the most dangerous in America today.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



dionysian
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14 Jun 2011, 1:29 pm

Just to make sure... We are all aware that when Rand died, she was living off of Social Security and Medicare... Right?


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14 Jun 2011, 1:40 pm

dionysian wrote:
Just to make sure... We are all aware that when Rand died, she was living off of Social Security and Medicare... Right?


Didn't exactly practice what she preached then, did she?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



dionysian
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14 Jun 2011, 2:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Just to make sure... We are all aware that when Rand died, she was living off of Social Security and Medicare... Right?


Didn't exactly practice what she preached then, did she?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Not at all. I think it is an indictment of both her and the ideas she promoted.


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14 Jun 2011, 2:08 pm

marshall wrote:
psychohist wrote:
I would love to see the liberal atheists forced to pick one of these choices.

I'm more agnostic and don't necessarily accept the "liberal" label but anyways... I pick Jesus. Seems like Jesus was nicer than most of his later followers. The same can't be said of Ayn Rand. You just can't get any more "Ayn Rand" than Ayn Rand herself.


You pretty much already said word for word what my response would be too. I'm an agnostic, but if I were given the choice, I'd choose Jesus too. I'm not all that happy with what a lot of His "followers" (in quotes because I find the claim dubious) have done with His teachings, but His original message was one of compassion and altruism, and brotherhood with one's fellow human beings. Whereas Ayn Rand spoke out many times against altruism as if it were the Black Plague.

I don't understand why there's this big assumption that liberalism and religion are completely incompatible. I mean, after all, Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic...


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14 Jun 2011, 5:30 pm

Chevand wrote:
marshall wrote:
psychohist wrote:
I would love to see the liberal atheists forced to pick one of these choices.

I'm more agnostic and don't necessarily accept the "liberal" label but anyways... I pick Jesus. Seems like Jesus was nicer than most of his later followers. The same can't be said of Ayn Rand. You just can't get any more "Ayn Rand" than Ayn Rand herself.


You pretty much already said word for word what my response would be too. I'm an agnostic, but if I were given the choice, I'd choose Jesus too. I'm not all that happy with what a lot of His "followers" (in quotes because I find the claim dubious) have done with His teachings, but His original message was one of compassion and altruism, and brotherhood with one's fellow human beings. Whereas Ayn Rand spoke out many times against altruism as if it were the Black Plague.

I don't understand why there's this big assumption that liberalism and religion are completely incompatible. I mean, after all, Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic...


Our friend Inuyasha has cast doubt on Moore's Catholicism, because of "how he lives his life."
I know, I know. I recall asking him to explain that to me, but he had never responded.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
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14 Jun 2011, 6:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Our friend Inuyasha has cast doubt on Moore's Catholicism, because of "how he lives his life."
I know, I know. I recall asking him to explain that to me, but he had never responded.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Mr. Moore actually leads a rather conservative personal family life. No gay sex tours to the Dominican Republic for him. Heck, he's never even been divorced.



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14 Jun 2011, 11:54 pm

pandabear wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Our friend Inuyasha has cast doubt on Moore's Catholicism, because of "how he lives his life."
I know, I know. I recall asking him to explain that to me, but he had never responded.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Mr. Moore actually leads a rather conservative personal family life. No gay sex tours to the Dominican Republic for him. Heck, he's never even been divorced.


Good for Mike! 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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15 Jun 2011, 2:38 am

I am a liberal. However I choose Jesus as he seems like he was a decent guy whereas Ayn Rand has a horrible way of viewing the world.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2011, 2:48 am

Chevand wrote:
marshall wrote:
psychohist wrote:
I would love to see the liberal atheists forced to pick one of these choices.

I'm more agnostic and don't necessarily accept the "liberal" label but anyways... I pick Jesus. Seems like Jesus was nicer than most of his later followers. The same can't be said of Ayn Rand. You just can't get any more "Ayn Rand" than Ayn Rand herself.


You pretty much already said word for word what my response would be too. I'm an agnostic, but if I were given the choice, I'd choose Jesus too. I'm not all that happy with what a lot of His "followers" (in quotes because I find the claim dubious) have done with His teachings, but His original message was one of compassion and altruism, and brotherhood with one's fellow human beings. Whereas Ayn Rand spoke out many times against altruism as if it were the Black Plague.

I don't understand why there's this big assumption that liberalism and religion are completely incompatible. I mean, after all, Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic...


As a matter of fact, I am myself both politically a liberal, and a Christian - specifically a Missouri synod Lutheran, which tends to be a right-of-center mainline Protestant denomination. Both my parents in fact had been traditional Lutherans, and fire breathing Democrats, so I guess you can argue nature vs. nurture concerning my religious and political views.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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15 Jun 2011, 12:37 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Chevand wrote:
marshall wrote:
psychohist wrote:
I would love to see the liberal atheists forced to pick one of these choices.

I'm more agnostic and don't necessarily accept the "liberal" label but anyways... I pick Jesus. Seems like Jesus was nicer than most of his later followers. The same can't be said of Ayn Rand. You just can't get any more "Ayn Rand" than Ayn Rand herself.


You pretty much already said word for word what my response would be too. I'm an agnostic, but if I were given the choice, I'd choose Jesus too. I'm not all that happy with what a lot of His "followers" (in quotes because I find the claim dubious) have done with His teachings, but His original message was one of compassion and altruism, and brotherhood with one's fellow human beings. Whereas Ayn Rand spoke out many times against altruism as if it were the Black Plague.

I don't understand why there's this big assumption that liberalism and religion are completely incompatible. I mean, after all, Michael Moore is a practicing Catholic...


As a matter of fact, I am myself both politically a liberal, and a Christian - specifically a Missouri synod Lutheran, which tends to be a right-of-center mainline Protestant denomination. Both my parents in fact had been traditional Lutherans, and fire breathing Democrats, so I guess you can argue nature vs. nurture concerning my religious and political views.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I also don't understand why there are so many people who think personal social conservatism is incompatible with being politically liberal. I am agnostic but I was raised in a Calvinist household. I went to church every Sunday, dress fairly conservatively, believe in the importance of family, etc... I never really understood the sex-drugs-and-rock-and-roll thing or teenage rebellion. As a young person I always thought that stuff was stupid as hell, still do to some degree.

I think I began to understand people more as I aged though. I realized how terrible it is that people can be so judgemental look down on people for being what they are. I don't understand how some Christians don't understand that sexual preference isn't a choice. People's ignorance and assumptiveness just astounds me. My other pet peeve is the conservative proclivity to atomize everything, to completely remove external circumstances from consideration in making moral judgements. I just get turned off by the lack of empathy in so many conservative arguments, even from people who would label themselves libertarian rather than conservative. Then it seems if I have this revulsion for the typical American conservatism I am by default lumped into the liberal camp. I never deliberately chose to be "liberal" or "left". I simply reject American conservatism.