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Fnord
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20 Jun 2011, 8:40 pm

pandabear wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1021826/posts

tl;dr

Soros is not my kind of nutjob.



Sand
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20 Jun 2011, 9:29 pm

The primary powers of a capitalist society as now functional are the corporations which have more or less gobbled up all the smaller successful businesses. They are no longer contained within nations and are international and are so powerful that governments to a large extent are under their control. In these circumstances free elections become a farce deluding populations that they live in democracies. In the USA the Supreme Court is now thoroughly under the thumb of the corporate complex so that completes the system of total corporate domination. The internal organization of any large business is functionally totalitarian. Since general policies are now determined by the domination of the interactions of the large corporations the free market is a delusion and a farce and the totalitarian character of the various business components of the country has now moved to change the character of the whole nation. The hypocritical characters of freedom and individual determination are totally undermined and destroyed. The enlarged powers of the federal and local legal systems through the false threats of terrorism has undermined whatever freedoms are left and only the interests of the corporations, which are in no way congruent to the interests of the general population, are enhanced and soon probably will be total. But since the aims of corporate enterprise are short sighted and totally selfish the end point is inexorably a violent crash of the entire system.



Burzum
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21 Jun 2011, 12:12 am

The problem is statism. Corporations can't lobby for economic protections if there is no state to lobby.

Corporations can only become monopolistic if they're being protected by the state.



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 12:16 am

Burzum wrote:
The problem is statism. Corporations can't lobby for economic protections if there is no state to lobby.

Corporations can only become monopolistic if they're being protected by the state.


Surely you mean corporations will become monopolistic if they can beat the others and are not BLOCKED by the state?



marshall
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21 Jun 2011, 12:23 am

Burzum wrote:
The problem is statism. Corporations can't lobby for economic protections if there is no state to lobby.

Corporations can only become monopolistic if they're being protected by the state.

Nutty libertarians like to deny the existence of natural monopolies. Without state regulation there is absolutely no check on the power of monopolistic corporate interests. It becomes like the sandbox where the selfish kid who happened to get there first hoards all the toys.



blauSamstag
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21 Jun 2011, 12:27 am

Burzum wrote:
The problem is statism. Corporations can't lobby for economic protections if there is no state to lobby.

Corporations can only become monopolistic if they're being protected by the state.


Seriously?

The existence of a large enough corporation - "too big to fail" so to speak - requires a state to protect the people from them.

And the last 30+ years worth of federal administrations in the USA have been slacking off on that job.



Burzum
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21 Jun 2011, 2:44 am

Philologos wrote:
Surely you mean corporations will become monopolistic if they can beat the others and are not BLOCKED by the state?

No, that's not what I mean. I'll give the example I always give: http://www.easyjet.com/en/news/easyjet_ ... opoly.html

The French government outright denied easyJet flight route rights, thereby granting AirFrance a monopoly. This is what "giving economic protections" means, however it doesn't get any more blatant than this example.


marshall wrote:
Nutty libertarians like to deny the existence of natural monopolies

I resent your insult. If you would like to restructure your argument without it, I might respond to it.



John_Browning
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21 Jun 2011, 3:03 am

Philologos wrote:
Hey - why not set up a capitalist state and a socialist state - using UN troops to keep them from closing their borders to migration - and let the market decide which people prefer?

Because people in the capitalist state would use UN troops for target practice and start placing blue helmets over their fireplace mantles instead of deer heads. :P


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21 Jun 2011, 8:59 am

The threat is NOT enterprise capitalism. It is government corrupted crony capitalism.

When the cronies get together we are all in for a world of pain except the cronies and the politicians.

ruveyn



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21 Jun 2011, 9:06 am

John_Browning wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Hey - why not set up a capitalist state and a socialist state - using UN troops to keep them from closing their borders to migration - and let the market decide which people prefer?

Because people in the capitalist state would use UN troops for target practice and start placing blue helmets over their fireplace mantles instead of deer heads. :P

Murder is so funny. :lol: :lmao: :| :roll:


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Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 10:47 am

dionysian - how come every time I look - without careful focus - at your [still unidentified to me] guitar player, I see Whistler's Mother?

Ever so Rorschach.



marshall
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21 Jun 2011, 11:26 am

Burzum wrote:
marshall wrote:
Nutty libertarians like to deny the existence of natural monopolies

I resent your insult. If you would like to restructure your argument without it, I might respond to it.

What would be the point in that? I've never heard a libertarian response to these kinds of arguments other than "the public should just suck it up - property rights reign supreme".



marshall
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21 Jun 2011, 11:30 am

ruveyn wrote:
The threat is NOT enterprise capitalism. It is government corrupted crony capitalism.

When the cronies get together we are all in for a world of pain except the cronies and the politicians.

ruveyn


ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........



VIDEODROME
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21 Jun 2011, 12:07 pm

marshall wrote:
Burzum wrote:
The problem is statism. Corporations can't lobby for economic protections if there is no state to lobby.

Corporations can only become monopolistic if they're being protected by the state.

Nutty libertarians like to deny the existence of natural monopolies. Without state regulation there is absolutely no check on the power of monopolistic corporate interests. It becomes like the sandbox where the selfish kid who happened to get there first hoards all the toys.


I'd like to see the States run all these regulations. I think it would be harder for monopolistic corporations to buy off all the governors.

Also I think we have a deeply flawed election system that has led to campaign contribution bribes.



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21 Jun 2011, 9:47 pm

dionysian wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Hey - why not set up a capitalist state and a socialist state - using UN troops to keep them from closing their borders to migration - and let the market decide which people prefer?

Because people in the capitalist state would use UN troops for target practice and start placing blue helmets over their fireplace mantles instead of deer heads. :P

Murder is so funny. :lol: :lmao: :| :roll:

I may be using a little humor, but I'm serious- UN troops wouldn't go over well with conservatives.


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Sand
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21 Jun 2011, 9:55 pm

John_Browning wrote:
dionysian wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Hey - why not set up a capitalist state and a socialist state - using UN troops to keep them from closing their borders to migration - and let the market decide which people prefer?

Because people in the capitalist state would use UN troops for target practice and start placing blue helmets over their fireplace mantles instead of deer heads. :P

Murder is so funny. :lol: :lmao: :| :roll:

I may be using a little humor, but I'm serious- UN troops wouldn't go over well with conservatives.


Now, now. Don't downgrade yourself. Your comments are frequently totally laughable.