Book: Love Wins by Rob Bell

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24 Jun 2011, 12:35 am

Bleh. I posted too soon. Anyway.. There is considerable discussion on the matter of Rob Bell's theology from both sides of the debate, that say that he does not represent universalism.

http://clearriver.org/jefflingblog/2011/03/rob-bell-love-wins/
http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/rob-bell-is-not-a-universalist-and-i-actually-read-love-wins/
http://burnsidewriters.com/2011/03/17/rob-bell-is-not-a-universalist-and-love-really-does-win/

And in his own words...

http://www.christianpost.com/news/rob-bell-denies-being-a-universalist-49417/

Quote:

Answering the straightforward question "are you a universalist?" posed by Newsweek's Lisa Miller Monday night, Bell said, "No."

"No, if by universalist we mean there's a giant cosmic arm that swoops everybody in at some point whether you want to be there or not," he elaborated.

"That violates the laws of love and love is about freedom, it's about choice, it's about do you want to be there? Because that's what would make it heaven."

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Awesomelyglorious
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24 Jun 2011, 12:38 am

His own words use a misrepresentation of universalism. Universalism today isn't saving people AGAINST their wishes. Philosopher Thomas Talbott is explicitly a universalist, but he believes that's because everybody will eventually want to be saved by God.

In any case, I never said he was a universalist. I said that was part of what the book talked about and that what I heard, he addressed the idea of universalism, and brought up the idea that all creatures may be saved. I actually haven't read the book though, and never admitted to, only going off of hearsay rather explicitly. And that's partially because not very many people had commented yet, and I didn't see a reason to let the thread fall to the bottom.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 24 Jun 2011, 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

91
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24 Jun 2011, 12:45 am

dionysian wrote:

Not a terrible review or anything. But it is a little simplistic to say that doctrines of universal salvation had their origin with Origen (sorry, couldn't help myself). In a much more scathing criticism of the book, Kevin Deyoung points out that some of the ideas predated Origen.

The review I offered up was mostly an overview. However the claim that Apocatastasis (as described by Origen) had advocates, in writing, before Origen cannot be substantiated. The specific reference described in your piece mentions St. Clement of Alexandria and it acknowledges, rightly, that the topics are different. St. Clement does indeed use the term Apocatastasis, but describes it in relation to the elect, not in a universal sense. So, in short, it is not simplistic to say that the doctrine of universal salvation, within Christianity, began with Origen.

dionysian wrote:

Quote:

Origen’s theology was partly anticipated by his fellow Platonist Clement of Alexandria

...which would mean that the ideas were present before the ink was dry on the gospels.

Nope, as I mentioned previously, St. Clement of Alexandria does not use the term Apocatastasis in the sense that it implies universal salvation.

I perfer the view of Hans Urs von Balthasar, a real revolutionary theologian, that we hope for all to be saved, but that we cannot know.

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24 Jun 2011, 12:47 am

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/blog/why-love-wins-by-rob-bell-is-not-universalism/

Here's a good explanation of it...

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dionysian
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24 Jun 2011, 3:07 am

91, I don't think it started with Origen. It started with Jesus.

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BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

Philologos
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24 Jun 2011, 8:36 am

91 wrote:

I prefer the view of Hans Urs von Balthasar, a real revolutionary theologian, that we hope for all to be saved, but that we cannot know.

Right.

There is no peeking at the last page.

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24 Jun 2011, 9:16 am

pandabear
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24 Jun 2011, 1:49 pm

Grand Rapids is also the headquarters for Amway.

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24 Jun 2011, 8:55 pm

pandabear wrote:

Grand Rapids is also the headquarters for Amway.

And it is bigger - probably grander - than Little Rapids on the other side of Lake Michigan.

What was your point again?

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