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Betty Bowers wants you to Join the Party!

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AstroGeek
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28 Mar 2012, 1:19 pm

Oodain wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Oodain wrote:
denouncing it as childsih is pointless and intellectually dishonest.

some countries thrive because of those differences of opinion, many would argue they are faring better than the us, even when looking at property and economic freedom.

not to mention the blatant disregard for all the factors and variables you havent taken into consideration, to think one know s the whole picture is again dishonest or delusional.



I am concerned with the "part of the picture" that impacts my life and that of my family. I look to my interests. Do you look to yours?

ruveyn


you dont have a chance of even seeing that picture, our actions have far reaching consequences when viewed en masse.

as for looking to my own interests, of course, i think most of us do.

It is very convenient for someone to say that society should be run on selfishness. It is a way to justify their own selfish behaviour.* We're not going to change his mind, so why bother putting yourself through the trouble of trying? I don't bother anymore, except where he gets a fact wrong or I see an inconsistency in his internal logic.

That said, I do see one in his earlier statement that forcing someone to provide healthcare to those who can not afford it is akin to slavery. I don't think that word can be applied to a universal healthcare system, even if you do disagree with the concept. Slavery would be if we forced people to become doctors and work in the public healthcare system. The term may have been appropriate for the USSR's healthcare system and perhaps for that of Cuba, but not those in Canada and Western Europe. Forcing everyone to pay might be restricting their freedoms, but I don't think it can be defined as slavery.

*Sidebar: ruveyn speaks as though people are fundamentally selfish. In fact, I think he's said as much. I have an interesting counter-example. the other day I heard that Canadian doctors are recommending raising more funds for the health care system by adding an extra one or two percent to the income tax of those making over $100 000/year. The title of their campaign? "Tax us!"



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28 Mar 2012, 2:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm trying to appeal to the wide eyed little boy, still filled with hope, who may yet be alive beneath ruveyn's hardened, gristly hide. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


When I was a child, I played with childish things. Now I am grown and I have put away childish things.

I prefer Justice to Mercy. Let each be dealt with according to what he deserves (or does not deserve). I do not consider paying the freight for dead-beats the purpose of my life. If you want to be charitable, by all means do so, but at YOUR expense, not MINE.

ruveyn


You must truly be riled up if you quote the Apostle Paul. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2012, 2:09 pm

Great video. f**k the GOP


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Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


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28 Mar 2012, 3:14 pm

Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:22 pm

Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


I'm on the "pro get people back to work" side. I support government healthcare paid for with taxes because every time a tax payer dies or goes sick without treatment its a big hit to the income of the state. I support a social safety-net that keeps people who lose their job from losing everything else while they are looking for a new job. I also support government retraining programs to get more people working. All of these are essentially motivated by selfishness.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:23 pm

Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2012, 3:30 pm

Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.

The Democrat party is not liberal. Merely less conservative.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:36 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2012, 3:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:43 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.


But not everyone on public assistance is going to be of that mindset.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2012, 3:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.


But not everyone on public assistance is going to be of that mindset.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


True but Aspies have a better chance of coming to geather and reaching a agreement using logic then most memmebers of congress and the senate.



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28 Mar 2012, 3:55 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.


But not everyone on public assistance is going to be of that mindset.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


True but Aspies have a better chance of coming to geather and reaching a agreement using logic then most memmebers of congress and the senate.


Perhaps, but us Aspies are pretty much in charge of jack s**t.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Joker
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28 Mar 2012, 3:56 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.


But not everyone on public assistance is going to be of that mindset.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


True but Aspies have a better chance of coming to geather and reaching a agreement using logic then most memmebers of congress and the senate.


Perhaps, but us Aspies are pretty much in charge of jack sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true a lot of scientists are aspies if we are in charge of anything it would be Science.



Kraichgauer
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28 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Hmm my view is everyone should be looking after theirself and family put it first everythiing else will is to me one big inconvenience I understand that the Democrat party and Liberals have a deep moral concerened for the unemployed but that doesnt mean they must get the tax payers to help keep those up who do not want to work or cant find a job its their soul responibility to care for themselfs unstead of having the tax payers do it for them.


To care for the unemployed and down and out is only looking after the general welfare - which I believe is actually stated in the constitution (or at least the preamble :?).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


In the world we live in their are the haves and haves not but doesnet mean the haves not cant look for a job and have to depend on the goverment everyone would be working if we lived in a fascist country democracy has its bad sides that we elect people to think for us and make decisions for the masses when they make the wrong ones instead of doing things for the so called greater good.


I never said the unemployed can't look for work. I'm saying it's best for the general welfare to keep people from dying of starvation, lack of medical care, or lack of shelter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I know im speaking for those who think that people should be entitled for those things the goverment doesnt oh us anything really they just enforce laws and make them for us doesnt mean that they will hand out homes to live in and healthcare for the masses unless us Aspies took over the system and ran it are way.


But not everyone on public assistance is going to be of that mindset.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


True but Aspies have a better chance of coming to geather and reaching a agreement using logic then most memmebers of congress and the senate.


Perhaps, but us Aspies are pretty much in charge of jack sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true a lot of scientists are aspies if we are in charge of anything it would be Science.


I was actually thinking about politics and power.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



AstroGeek
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28 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm

Joker wrote:
True but Aspies have a better chance of coming to geather and reaching a agreement using logic then most memmebers of congress and the senate.

Um, have you read these forums? There are examples of abuse or misuse of logic on all sides. And even when logic is used flawlessly, if you start with different fundamental values then you logic will lead to different conclusions. I will not deny that for the most part ruveyn is logical, yet I still find most of his statements disgusting.