why is this a common story?

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I didn't have to look past huffington post to get an idea of what I'd be reading if I read it.

To some feminists, even consensual sex with a man is rape.

See the third link. Even taking, for the sake of argument, that 8% of rape accusations are false, that's still a tiny minority of actual rapes. Far more are not reported at all than are falsely reported.

Also, there is this:
http://www.shakesville.com/2009/11/meet-predators.html
and also:
https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... tor-redux/

I wouldn't say 8% is a tiny minority, I wouldn't even say .06% is. I could only wish to have those odds on the Powerball. I'm not saying that rape victims should be automatically disbelieved, most normal people would never something like that to another person but one must be objective. So when it comes down to he-said she-said and circumstantial evidence, the credibility of the accuser is always going to called into question. It's unfortunate that this can have a chilling effect on people reporting actual rapes and interpret this rape apology or victim blaming but what is the alternative?

Yes, HuffPo posts a lot of crap; they also post a lot of good articles. Did you notice that I also posted an article about the same study from a different source? And do you have any actual criticism of the study in question, or just ad-hominems about the host?

@Jacoby, wrt. alternatives: how about treating accusations of rape the same way we treat accusations of other types of assault?

I'm not sure what you mean, I'd say sexual assaults are taken much more seriously than other types of assault and aren't held to nearly the same standard of evidence. I doubt many prosecutors will go to trial over simple or aggravated assault without physical evidence or collaborating witnesses. The credibility of an accuser is always going to be taken into context in any crime where the evidence is the word of the accuser. In the US, our 6th amendment guarantees you the right to confront your accuser.

Having worked with teenagers with behavioural issues and knowing two people who hold relatively high positions in Social Services in the UK, I can say these cases are much more common than are either reported or prosecuted in this country.

Often there is a lack of evidence to pursue a prosecution due to the perpetrators not leaving such an obvious trail as in the most memorable recent cases. Photographs of offences from phones are commonly shared between users but comments are either cryptic or not added to reduce any signs of complicity. Once these events become common knowledge within a peer group bullying usually results, either during personal contact or on social media, or both. Public use of the victim being called a "slag" or "slut" only help to alienate the victim further and reinforce the feelings of shame and guilt, but are not automatically associated with a specific event if the details of the crime are not overtly described.

The traditional reasoning has been replaced for the younger generations with the pop culture stereotypes and acceptance by both sexes that females are "b*****s" and "ho's" and males are "gangsters" and "players".

Last edited by neilson_wheels on 11 Aug 2013, 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

I believe the act is sexual sadism, about control and humiliation.

Why are others complicit in the humiliation? There is obviously a moral breakdown, where over time, these people do and experience more an more outrageous behavior without consequences. They either have an externally spoiled upbringing or nothing in the way of parents of guardians.

Bulling is an inherently narcissistic activity.

I believe over time the victim is seen as less of a being, because the bullies are getting there reaction they are wanting, it escalates into further humiliation.

I see it time an again where the victim is stuck in a cycle they don't know how to get out of, they are playing the bullies game. I'm not saying it is easy or always possible, but in many cases you can learn not to play the bullies game, from the offset.

It is harder for those that are emotionally young.

I also happen to think that childhood and adolescence are overrated. Being an adult is much better, and you have greater choice an power to do something about it.

For a little bit of comparison, here is the clearance rate (arrested, charged and turned over to the courts) for forcible rape compared to other crimes in the US. Note that this does not display the conviction rate.



There appears to be a quite uniform distribution of clearance rates based on the presumed availability of physical evidence. Obviously, cases of theft, burglary and robbery can be difficult to prosecute, because the physical evidence is often... well, absent due to theft.

Some definitions from the Feds:
Forcible rape: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... cible-rape
Clearance rate: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... clearances

I don't know why it's a common story but even if it only happens once or twice it is still too often.

I feel sorry for anybody who is bullied to the point that they feel there is no other option but to commit suicide. However, I don't know how it can ever be prevented.

There are so many reasons why someone wouldn't report a rape that I don't understand why some people don't get it.

I might have had something happen to me once but I didn't know because I was unconscious. I would have had to go somewhere and get tested just to find out if it even happened and even if there was evidence I wouldn't have had any way to prove that it wasn't consensual. Between my being drunk and a minor no one would have believed me and both I and the bar I drank at would have been in trouble. It was better to just hope nothing happened and forget about it.

Indeed. We should all gang up and send a joint letter to the Obama Administration to repeal *this* letter from the US Department of Education - Office for Civil Rights (OCR) to US educational institutions:

"OCR’s work indicates that a number of issues related to an adequate, reliable, and impartial investigation arise in sexual harassment and violence complaints. In some cases, the conduct may constitute both sexual harassment under Title IX and criminal activity. Police investigations may be useful for fact-gathering; but because the standards for criminal investigations are different, police investigations or reports are not determinative of whether sexual harassment or violence violates Title IX. Conduct may constitute unlawful sexual harassment under Title IX even if the police do not have sufficient evidence of a criminal violation. In addition, a criminal investigation into allegations of sexual violence does not relieve the school of its duty under Title IX to resolve complaints promptly and equitably.

(...)

As noted above, the Title IX regulation requires schools to provide equitable grievance procedures. As part of these procedures, schools generally conduct investigations and hearings to determine whether sexual harassment or violence occurred. In addressing complaints filed with OCR under Title IX, OCR reviews a school’s procedures to determine whether the school is using a preponderance of the evidence standard to evaluate complaints."

Source:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/o ... 201104.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX

Backing the "winners", the Just World Fallacy... it's predation!

GGPViper, I think they're talking about two different subjects; criminal rape/sexual assault, and civil harassment/creation of an unwelcoming environment. The differentiation between criminal and civil charges applies in other arenas as well; for example, Trayvon Martin's family might take Zimmerman to court for civil damages, even though he got off on the criminal charges.

Likewise, one of my childhood friends succeeded in suing a (female) supervisor of hers for harassment, even though no criminal charges were filed.

Actually they can't, as Florida statute provides civil immunity for anyone who legally uses deadly force; Floridians didn't like those stories where thieves sued homeowners for injuries received while burgling their property, etc.

Back on topic though, what is it that you're advocating here? It really does seem like you're wanting to reduce the burden of proof in these cases, is that really what you're saying?

Zimmerman is actually immune to civil charges by Florida law, Nicole Brown Simpson's family took OJ to civil court tho as you describe.

Rape or sexual assault is very hard to prove and there just isn't enough evidence to prove guilt without reasonable doubt but prosecutors pursue it anyways because it is such a heinous crime. As a man, you're probably more likely to be wrongly convicted of sexual assault than any other crime. A lot of times these prosecutors will pressure innocent people into taking plea deals to avoid being locked up for decades.

I stand corrected wrt. civil charges against Zimmerman. I think that the point stands wrt. Viper's claim, though.

As for what I want, I don't want rape victims to be automatically disbelieved. I don't want so many rapes to go unreported. I don't want there to be such a huge backlog of untested rape kits. I don't think that people should be any more ashamed to report a rape than any other physical assault - if someone puts a knife to your throat and takes the cash out of your wallet, why is that more believable to the police and the public at large than when someone puts a knife to your throat and rapes you? Why is 'he gave me the money' less believable than 'he wanted it'? The physical evidence would be similar in either case.