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Conservatives more likely to believe vaccines cause Autism

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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2015, 6:40 am

Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


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ruveyn
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03 Mar 2015, 11:20 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
RhodyStruggle wrote:
Given that whole "we totally used vaccination campaigns to locate and kill Osama bin Laden" thing, it's not as though the fear is entirely unjustified. All it takes is believing that the CIA is capable of lying when they promise never to do it again. Not exactly a huge leap of faith to suspect a spy agency might lie.


But it's not the CIA administrating vaccinations at my daughter's pediatrician's office.


Oh there you go again, being logical.

ruveyn



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03 Mar 2015, 11:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Again, that's just one of the perils of living in a free society that you lefties don't want to accept. Personally, I don't think it's as much as a health risk issue you all are sweating over but a compulsion to want to control people's lives.


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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2015, 11:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
RhodyStruggle wrote:
Given that whole "we totally used vaccination campaigns to locate and kill Osama bin Laden" thing, it's not as though the fear is entirely unjustified. All it takes is believing that the CIA is capable of lying when they promise never to do it again. Not exactly a huge leap of faith to suspect a spy agency might lie.


But it's not the CIA administrating vaccinations at my daughter's pediatrician's office.


Oh there you go again, being logical.

ruveyn


:lol:


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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2015, 11:53 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Again, that's just one of the perils of living in a free society that you lefties don't want to accept. Personally, I don't think it's as much as a health risk issue you all are sweating over but a compulsion to want to control people's lives.


The perils of living in a free society doesn't include putting the health and safety of others at risk. Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.


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traven
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03 Mar 2015, 12:00 pm

Vaccine is proposed to give the anti-genic material to the illness, so properly vaccined you could not get ill from contacting the pathogen.



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03 Mar 2015, 12:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Again, that's just one of the perils of living in a free society that you lefties don't want to accept. Personally, I don't think it's as much as a health risk issue you all are sweating over but a compulsion to want to control people's lives.


The perils of living in a free society doesn't include putting the health and safety of others at risk.

Then move someplace else.

Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


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ruveyn
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03 Mar 2015, 1:53 pm

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


General George Washington had all the men in his Trenton barracks innocculated against small pox during his winter New Jersey Campaign. The General ordered it and so it was done. About five out of a hundred who were innocculated died of the disease which was just about par for innocculation.

Thomas Jefferson some years later had himself inocculated and recommended the same to everyone.

ruveyn



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03 Mar 2015, 2:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


General George Washington had all the men in his Trenton barracks innocculated against small pox during his winter New Jersey Campaign. The General ordered it and so it was done. About five out of a hundred who were innocculated died of the disease which was just about par for innocculation.

Thomas Jefferson some years later had himself inocculated and recommended the same to everyone.

ruveyn


Thank you.


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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2015, 2:05 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Again, that's just one of the perils of living in a free society that you lefties don't want to accept. Personally, I don't think it's as much as a health risk issue you all are sweating over but a compulsion to want to control people's lives.


The perils of living in a free society doesn't include putting the health and safety of others at risk.

Then move someplace else.

Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


I don't need to move somewhere else, as freedom to opt out of vaccinations is generally regarded in America as in the realm of the insane and irresponsible. If anything, you appear to be on the side with much less credit.


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03 Mar 2015, 2:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
RhodyStruggle wrote:
Given that whole "we totally used vaccination campaigns to locate and kill Osama bin Laden" thing, it's not as though the fear is entirely unjustified. All it takes is believing that the CIA is capable of lying when they promise never to do it again. Not exactly a huge leap of faith to suspect a spy agency might lie.


But it's not the CIA administrating vaccinations at my daughter's pediatrician's office.


Oh there you go again, being logical.

ruveyn


Logically, I gave a statement of the form:

For all x in S, f(x) is a valid theorem in the relevant universe of discourse.

Kraichgauer's response was of the form:

For some y not in S, f(y) is not a valid theorem in the relevant universe of discourse.

Logically, that's a non sequitur.


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03 Mar 2015, 2:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


General George Washington had all the men in his Trenton barracks innocculated against small pox during his winter New Jersey Campaign. The General ordered it and so it was done. About five out of a hundred who were innocculated died of the disease which was just about par for innocculation.

That's the military, they can and still do make inoculation mandatory.

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson some years later had himself inocculated and recommended the same to everyone.
know what "recommend" means as opposed to force?

ruveyn[/quote]


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RhodyStruggle
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03 Mar 2015, 2:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Show me one example where the founders had advocated such a notion that freedom supersedes the rights of others.
You're the one that wants to force everyone to be vaccinated so the onus is on you to show us where they didn't advocate freedom in matters like this.


General George Washington had all the men in his Trenton barracks innocculated against small pox during his winter New Jersey Campaign. The General ordered it and so it was done. About five out of a hundred who were innocculated died of the disease which was just about par for innocculation.

Thomas Jefferson some years later had himself inocculated and recommended the same to everyone.

ruveyn


That's only a precedent for vaccination under martial law though. The men inoculated were subject to military authority and discipline. That's not true of the general population.


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03 Mar 2015, 3:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Public safety?

That'd be the same public whose tax dollars paid to have me institutionalized, drugged, and tortured over a span of years, yeah?

Well, I'm part of everyone. And I strongly disagree that it's anywhere even in the same universe as "fair" to ask me to do a bloody thing for the safety of the public that turned its back on me, declared war on me, and would rather see me dead.

You have this happy delusion that "we're all in this together," and we're not. Expecting those of us whom you've forcibly ejected from your herd to give a rat's *ss about the status of its immunity is unrealistic.


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03 Mar 2015, 3:57 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:
Is it crazy to suspect that there is a correlation between mercury and autism? No.

There's no evidence for it, and besides, the symptoms of mercury poisoning differ from the symptoms of autism.

Nebogipfel wrote:
Is there mercury in vaccines? Yes.Thimerosal.

Thimerosal is not mercury. You may as well claim that there is hydrogen in water, and thus swimming pools are inflammable.
TheRedPedant93 wrote:
As a libertarian who disparages Big Government myself this doesn't make me feel stupefied one bit. I have long postulated that the perceptions between collectivist ideologies, opposition attitude to mandatory vaccination and/or objectification to being administered with vaccines was all a mythos. I still uphold my doubts whether vaccines can attribute to the regressive proportionment of ASD cases via an epigenetic framework is veracious or not. Researchers who conduct foreseeable analyses like this desperately need to consider applying libertarians to their subjects and deeply scrutinize their relationship to vaccination standpoints.

OK, in the nicest way possible, I don't know if that's actually the most natural way you'd say that or you looked up every other word in a thesaurus, but either way, you're gonna need to dumb it down a little on this sort of forum! I had to read all those sentences twice to understand them, even though you're not saying anything complex.

I don't think researchers should care about politics. Let the researchers do their thing, then the politicians can consider what to do about it.



Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2015, 4:06 pm

RhodyStruggle wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It's quite simple:
Those who want to be vaxxed, go for it!
Those who don't want to be vaxxed, then don't.


And risk endangering those who have not yet been vaccinated? When public safety is at stake, I think it's more than fair to ask everyone to take the proper precautions, in this case, getting vaccinated.


Public safety?

That'd be the same public whose tax dollars paid to have me institutionalized, drugged, and tortured over a span of years, yeah?

Well, I'm part of everyone. And I strongly disagree that it's anywhere even in the same universe as "fair" to ask me to do a bloody thing for the safety of the public that turned its back on me, declared war on me, and would rather see me dead.

You have this happy delusion that "we're all in this together," and we're not. Expecting those of us whom you've forcibly ejected from your herd to give a rat's *ss about the status of its immunity is unrealistic.


For the record, I am not in favor of having you tortured and drugged. I am advocating vaccinations to prevent illness and death in the population; so yes, in that respect, we are all in this together. I don't buy into the libertarian myth of all people being individuals owing nothing to his or her fellow humans. We are our brother's keeper.


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