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Misslizard
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30 Dec 2016, 7:14 pm

http://buddhism.about.com/od/thesixreal ... Realms.htm


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naturalplastic
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30 Dec 2016, 7:20 pm

Hell (the concept) traces back to that aforementioned natural incinerator outside of Jerusalem in ancient Judea known to the ancient Hebrews and early Christians as a place of eternal fire were refuse was disposed of.

But "Hell" (the name) is from Pagan northwest Europe.

"Hel" was a Germanic Norse/Anglosaxon goddess who ruled her underworld realm (also named "Hel") where a portion of the dead went to. She was the daughter of Loki (the trickster-vaguely equivalent to the Devil) and she had a rather dour unpleasant appearence (her face was half blue). Both her character, and her name, may trace back to the even earlier Proto Indoeuropeans. She maybe analogous to the Hindu goddess Kali.

So our image of the Christian "Hell" is that of a real firey place in Israel, but stamped with the name of a Pagan English goddess.



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30 Dec 2016, 7:30 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
As best I can tell, it has been the strategy of atheists, to acknowledge all the myths and superstitions, but give it a materialistic explanation -- a backdoor route to converting Christians.

So, I should like to hear the atheists give a materialistic reason.

I'm an atheist and I have no desire to convert anyone. We need not define hell since it is nonsense and doesn't exist. However, life would be better if we were all atheists and stopped believing in sky fairies and such...



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30 Dec 2016, 8:41 pm

What makes hell so terrible is not such much the fire; but rather the lack of weenies for roasting.


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30 Dec 2016, 8:50 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
As best I can tell, it has been the strategy of atheists, to acknowledge all the myths and superstitions, but give it a materialistic explanation -- a backdoor route to converting Christians.

So, I should like to hear the atheists give a materialistic reason.


Whilst there are definitely atheists who proselytise, these tend to be ex-Christians, especially those who reside within the bible belt (Matt Dillahunty springs to mind as an obvious example) or other areas where Christianity is the 'norm'. As such, I can understand their actions whilst disapproving of their zeal (and all-too-commonly their self-righteousness and quasi-religious-surrogate approach to atheism).

By contrast, I'm content to debate and discuss any aspect of religion, faith and belief, but I have no desire to persuade anyone to give theirs up. I believe that this is typical of the majority of atheists, especially those who weren't 'born into' religion. Contrary to what seems to be the popular opinion, most of us don't form an ideology that hinges upon the non-existence of divine beings. I'd welcome genuine evidence in support of either gnostic position.



techstepgenr8tion
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30 Dec 2016, 9:16 pm

I think the OP is probably asking too much of mainstream religious concepts.

The possibility, if life extends hereafter, that if a person's integrity is an absolute hot mess that their energetic structure will start attacking and harming itself, just by nature of their habits, once they no longer have a body to counterbalance their vice. Hence that person would feel as if the very air were attempting to permanently rend them into oblivion, which could burn like fire in a way I suppose, and add the whole visual of the 'worm that never dies' it seems like such a worm could be a rogue energy dynamic eating the person's structure.

Obviously a person like that would probably throw themselves into anything warm, wet, and within a day of fertilization regardless of whether they'd be sowing soccer balls in Pakistan, eighth wife to a Salafist in Saudi Arabia, ending up in some pedophiles basement, or whatever the case may be - it'd be that or be eaten alive by one's own deeds.


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30 Dec 2016, 9:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The possibility, if life extends hereafter, that if a person's integrity is an absolute hot mess that their energetic structure will start attacking and harming itself, just by nature of their habits, once they no longer have a body to counterbalance their vice. Hence that person would feel as if the very air were attempting to permanently rend them into oblivion, which could burn like fire in a way I suppose, and add the whole visual of the 'worm that never dies' it seems like such a worm could be a rogue energy dynamic eating the person's structure.

Obviously a person like that would probably throw themselves into anything warm, wet, and within a day of fertilization regardless of whether they'd be sowing soccer balls in Pakistan, eighth wife to a Salafist in Saudi Arabia, ending up in some pedophiles basement, or whatever the case may be - it'd be that or be eaten alive by one's own deeds.


Did you see the film "What Dreams May Come?" It presented a similar concept.


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techstepgenr8tion
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30 Dec 2016, 10:01 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Did you see the film "What Dreams May Come?" It presented a similar concept.


Yeah, I do remember that. I think at the time I was kinda pissed about it like - pff, what universal deity could be so hard-headed to what it puts us through in life after dumping us off in the woods with no directions, clues, or memory and then let us burn for the results even when those results came from us berating ourselves? My life up to that point was built on self-berating (it was trained into me pretty firmly) so that's another reason why that part struck a chord.

I suppose my suggestion above is just as bad but I'd have to assume in that case that it's not a deity in any conscious sense, just a panpsychic field sprinkled through the universe that might not have the capacity to worry about justice of outcome because, perhaps, it's not in control of things.


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naturalplastic
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30 Dec 2016, 10:04 pm

They have propane.

Sorry...

I mean METHane.Similar. That they siphon from Jupiter which is made almost entirely of Methane, and is 300 times as massive as earth.

So thanks to planet Jupiter the minions of Satan have enough fuel to BBQ the billions of sinners in each generation for all of forseeable generations to come. So dont worry about it.



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30 Dec 2016, 11:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Its a place of eternal torment.

So fire is the best metaphor they could come up with. That and pitchforks.


I think the pitchforks come from Dante's Inferno. I think what Dante wrote and what's written in the Bible easily get switched around a lot.



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31 Dec 2016, 12:12 am

Well I feel pain in dreams in a variety of ways, from a vast array of sources, sometimes I get scorched or singed by a creature or a source of blazing heat, sometimes I just pass by something fiery or what I ascertain to be heated, sometimes its steam or hotwater, once it was acid rain from a contaminated factory pumping out a noxious spray into the clouds and there descended a dreadful drizzle! Anyway, if a dream environment can transmit the notion of gnarly flame-fauna or hellacious heat, well why can't (X LOCATION) have ceaseless fire crisping and crackling away? I want to know where the faithful beasts manning the more mundane positions go on their breaks or for holidays or when shift ends, they can't just receive fulfillment torturing and tormenting all ''day'' whatever that is segmented into down or up or around there, wherever it may or may not be for those who deserve its dour dungeon, without a little variation or opportunities to receive further joy and meaning outside the prison slab, maybe they are born into such a merciless machine and that's all they want to know, what vile version of superiority are they basking in over the sinners if all they desire is to stay in that box pushing buttons so to speak in the scheme of things and batter souls into crushed cans, there must be a point where they realize they're imprisoned too.



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31 Dec 2016, 1:09 am

From what I can understand, hell can be on earth. In a biblical sense, hell is a place reserved for Satan apparently and demons. About fire, imagining the worst place to be would be a place with no love, no hope, fire just seems to be the physical sense of hurt. And if anything could be imagined, a place dark with fire that cannot be seen isn't so hard for me to see.



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31 Dec 2016, 2:20 am

Hell is only an idea. The reason fire comes up is how it is referred in the book Matthew of the New Testament, where there would a massive trash heap outside of Jerusalem's walls being burned (Jesus uses it as reference to hell being a bad place). However, the Midrashic tradition Jesus comes from would dictate that Sheol is the place for lost spirits. I cannot think a Quran reference however.
Nonetheless, hell is still a place you don't want to be. Unless it's in Norway or the Cayman Islands, then it is a city. :D


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techstepgenr8tion
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31 Dec 2016, 2:32 am

BeggingTurtle wrote:
Nonetheless, hell is still a place you don't want to be. Unless it's in Norway or the Cayman Islands, then it is a city. :D


Or if you're in New Zealand, in which case you're enjoying some relatively good pizza.


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Misslizard
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31 Dec 2016, 10:46 am

VegetableMan wrote:
What makes hell so terrible is not such much the fire; but rather the lack of weenies for roasting.

That and the beer is always hot.


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Misslizard
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31 Dec 2016, 10:57 am


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