Can one be both conservative and tolerant?

Page 2 of 14 [ 215 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14 Next

Joined: 6 May 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,225
Location: NZ

25 Feb 2017, 3:36 am

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

No it's honestly not. I for one am angry about what Social Conservatives have done to the US. They have legitimized a level of hate towards Muslims and other ethnic groups. 13 million Undocumented immigrants now risk being deported. And religious restoration acts across the country have discriminated against LGBT people, you know throughout a large part of the country you are able to deny services and employment to people on the grounds of their sexuality.

I am against Conservatives 80% of the time I just hate the politics of demonization and alienation when you people aren't so bad.

hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,747
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

25 Feb 2017, 5:57 am

Shahunshah wrote:

Well the whole reason why many undocumented immigrants came was because jobs here weren't being filled. It makes it or the more likely that these people are liberals. Since Africans that make up allot of the Democratic voters in the 2000s had high unemployment rate in spite of this.

I've bolded the part that I feel is just jumping to conclusions. Where are the facts and figures on this. You are assuming that these slackers that won't take the low paying jobs are liberal democrats. That's an assumption not a fact.

I'm neither here nor there on American politics, don't care what you guys do, but you are not presenting a solid argument here.

Also from what I understand black people have a lot of racial prejudice to get past before they can even find work.

Even in the UK if you have a foreign sounding name you are less likely to be selected for interview due to the prejudice of employers.

Google is your friend. Seriously if you google why can't black people find jobs in america you'll find some interesting articles.

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

25 Feb 2017, 6:01 am

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

Since when haven't people in this or any country illegally, been in danger of being deported? The US is getting as tough immigration as many other nations have always been. I think the real problem has been the US being too soft in the past and letting the problem get out of control. I think saying conservatives have legitimized hatred towards Muslims and other ethnic groups, sounds more like an emotionally charged accusation than an accurate one. Religion, especially Islam by the way, has always been agaist LGBT. But what services and employment are being denied when that's against the law? A chunk of this still sounds like liberal rhetoric to me. The conservatives are the tyrannical oppressors and the liberals are the altruistic liberators. See I think the real politics of demonizing is coming from the left.

Last edited by EzraS on 25 Feb 2017, 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,239
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

25 Feb 2017, 6:02 am

Shahunshah wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Conservatives and liberals are tolerant and intolerant of different things based on thier values. For the sake of discussion, the first thing we need to do is establish what constitutes tolerance.

Shahunshah wrote:

I've met intolerant liberals.

And how!

Quote:

They call the other side, bigots and rednecks and all kinds of slurs. They might as well be racist themselves.

And those slurs can be turned around and weaponized as taunts against those making the accusations.
Any grief they have from it can be written off as self inflicted since they attempted to draw first blood.
What comes around goes around...

That most certainly can happen.

What I was saying is that their are many liberals who mock Working class Americans and in the worst cases act as though they are less. That can verge on intolerance.

As I recall, just four years ago, plenty of conservatives had accused working class people of envy for complaining about the financial gap between the rich and poor. The only difference today is that Trump realized how he could wrangle white working class voters in a way Republicans had not been able to before. And considering the anti-labor stance the Republican party has taken for years, especially with their opposition to raising the minimum wage, and expanding health care, it's rather hypocritical of Republicans to say that they represent working people, white or otherwise.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,239
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

25 Feb 2017, 6:11 am

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

Is demonization coming from the left, or is the left only holding a mirror up to the right?
And sure, Islam is anti-LGBT, but so is Catholicism. But no one is for keeping Irish or Italian immigrants out for anti-LGBT bigotry out of the country.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Shahunshah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,225
Location: NZ

25 Feb 2017, 6:24 am

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

Look at the religious freedom restoration acts. They have been passed all over the country by conservative governors. The effects of these is that you are allowed to allot to not refuse employment to someone on the grounds of their sexuality and mistreat them since doing that is not seen as being anything wrong after all discrimination against them is not realized. Islam is the most part anti-LGBT but that cannot be said as a means to legitimize what social conservatives are doing all across the country.

The thing is about Islam is that the culture Muslims have is not as bad as what we make it seem. In the USA their have been numerous Syrian refugees and the thing is their has not been a single terrorist attack on US shores. If that has not happened than I think it is clear not many of them are terrorists. Look at the shooting in the Quebec city mosque, the problem with Trump is that the kind of attitude which is seeing Islamic culture as deplorable may make many people hate and hold contempt for them. This will foster division, may lead to more terror attacks and mistreatment towards those people.

Illegal immigration does certainly have a cost on the people it is undeniable. But the impacts are said to be little. The average worker only has a their wages decreased by 5% and the effects of deportation will be terrible. Millions of people will lose their livelihoods and we simply cannot allow it to happen.

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

25 Feb 2017, 12:45 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Quote:

Also somewhat hypocritical when you consider that many liberals are below working class in that they don't even try to gain employment.

That's not a good argument. It's a sweeping generalisation. That's like Daily Mail scaremongering.

He was not saying a generalization. Many people who vote for Democrats are unemployed and take benefits from the government.

I want to see some proof.

Department of Labor website is presently down for maintenance at the time and I doubt that thier data covers liberal vs. conservative statistics.

But for now we have this:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419257/not-employed-listed-among-most-democratic-jobs-julia-porterfield

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

25 Feb 2017, 12:49 pm

Raptor wrote:

Conservatives and liberals are tolerant and intolerant of different things based on thier values. For the sake of discussion, the first thing we need to do is establish what constitutes tolerance.

Shahunshah wrote:

I've met intolerant liberals.

And how!

Quote:

They call the other side, bigots and rednecks and all kinds of slurs. They might as well be racist themselves.

Hold up there. Who drew first blood?

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

25 Feb 2017, 12:51 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Also from what I understand black people have a lot of racial prejudice to get past before they can even find work.

On the planet I live they seem to have no problem gaining employment as long as they are qualified. There's a lot more to getting hired than just applying.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

25 Feb 2017, 12:52 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Conservatives and liberals are tolerant and intolerant of different things based on thier values. For the sake of discussion, the first thing we need to do is establish what constitutes tolerance.

Shahunshah wrote:

I've met intolerant liberals.

And how!

Quote:

They call the other side, bigots and rednecks and all kinds of slurs. They might as well be racist themselves.

Hold up there. Who drew first blood?

Read it again why don't ya.
:roll:

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

25 Feb 2017, 12:55 pm

Raptor wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Quote:

Also somewhat hypocritical when you consider that many liberals are below working class in that they don't even try to gain employment.

That's not a good argument. It's a sweeping generalisation. That's like Daily Mail scaremongering.

He was not saying a generalization. Many people who vote for Democrats are unemployed and take benefits from the government.

I want to see some proof.

Meaningless in the context of your argument. The data are almost certainly reversed for the word 'housewife' and they could easily mean the same thing. All that article says is that people who donate to Dems use the word they picked to make a point, and people who donate to Reps don't use that particular word.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

25 Feb 2017, 5:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

It's seemed like obvious demonizing to me from the start. From what I've observed that's a way the whole PC/SWJ movement has operated, by vilifying and demonizing. Islam being anti-LGBT the same as Catholicism was my point - pointing it out in Catholicism is encouraged, pointing it (or most anything else) out in Islam is called "Islamophobic".

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,239
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

25 Feb 2017, 6:03 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

Again, no one wants to limit Irish or Italian immigration to America (at least not in modern times) as with ethnic Middle Eastern Muslims. Sounds like Islamophobia is "Trumping" any Anti-Catholic sentiment.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

25 Feb 2017, 9:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

cberg
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

25 Feb 2017, 9:29 pm

Sure, anyone can also be ignorant & tolerant. You don't have to know anything to be ambivalent towards someone's background. Case in point, the white house.

_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

25 Feb 2017, 9:34 pm

These persecution fantasies fascinate me. I read worse political foolishness here than I ever see in real life, and most of the time I see the words Islamophobia or PC are from conservatives. People complain of being accused of racism or fascism almost ten times as often as anyone accuses them of it. Get real.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Page 2 of 14 [ 215 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14 Next

Jump to:

Can one be both conservative *and* tolerant? Post Reply New Topic

Can one be both conservative and tolerant?