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ive noticed that a lot of pro-life people are also pro war

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 May 2011, 10:07 am

Raptor wrote:
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I've noticed that a lot of people that i talk to that are pro-life are also pro-war. Also a lot seem to be pro-death penalty. how can these peoples deal with the obvious heavy irony?


And I find it ironic that a lot of pro-choice people are anti-war and anti-death penalty.


Yes, that is ironic. they'll stand for the willful intentional murder of unborn infants, and yet they have a problem with fighting between adults or the execution of people who kill the innocent. Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.



katzefrau
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28 May 2011, 2:27 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.


don't be obtuse. no one is in favor of murdering infants.


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28 May 2011, 2:41 pm

I am against the death penalty and abortion (with the usual exceptions for rape, etc.).
I am in favor of gay rights.

Generally, I am in favor of people being happy and not killing each other whenever possible.



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28 May 2011, 3:25 pm

Personally, in my heart, I'm pro-life (because no one wants to kill babies), but I've come to hold much of the pro-life movement in contempt, with their disdain for the welfare of anyone poor who isn't still in the womb, or in the coffin.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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28 May 2011, 3:25 pm

katzefrau wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.


don't be obtuse. no one is in favor of murdering infants.

Actually the pro-abortion crowd does favor the murder of infants, heck some of your abortion doctor heros murder infants that are born alive after a botched abortion and your crowd doesn't even bat an eye.

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's because the pro-life movement has so thoroughly been taken over by the Republican right. Originally, liberals like Jesse Jackson were pro-life, while conservatives like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice - it had been a non-partisan issue. But than, Ronald Reagan had turned opposition to abortion into a plank in Republican political campaign in order to capture the pro-life evangelical vote, which had originally been courted by the pro-choice Jimmy Carter. And so now, the pro-life stance is lumped together with every other heartless, socially conservative policy.


Difference between a Conservative and Liberal, Conservatives set high moral standards and occasionally fail to live up to them; liberals seem to have no moral standards and yell at Conservatives for not being perfect.

You want to dish it out, you better be prepared to get it thrown right back in your face.



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28 May 2011, 3:42 pm

psychohist wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
phil beat me too it the problem is semantic.
the terms anti-abortion and pro-abortion rights strike me as being fair.

"pro abortion rights" implies the existence of abortion "rights", which the antiabortion folks do not concede exist. "pro abortion choice" is a better term.
Why?

Excuse me for basically godwinning this. But I am quite sure that back at the time "Civil rights movement" had plenty of opponents who didn't agree on the existence of such rights, but they didn't change their name to keep them happy...

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Difference between a Conservative and Liberal, Conservatives set high moral standards and occasionally fail to live up to them; liberals seem to have no moral standards and yell at Conservatives for not being perfect.
Yes, Inuyasha, that's it. Liberals have no morals. They also eat babies.


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28 May 2011, 3:56 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
katzefrau wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.


don't be obtuse. no one is in favor of murdering infants.

Actually the pro-abortion crowd does favor the murder of infants, heck some of your abortion doctor heros murder infants that are born alive after a botched abortion and your crowd doesn't even bat an eye.

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's because the pro-life movement has so thoroughly been taken over by the Republican right. Originally, liberals like Jesse Jackson were pro-life, while conservatives like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice - it had been a non-partisan issue. But than, Ronald Reagan had turned opposition to abortion into a plank in Republican political campaign in order to capture the pro-life evangelical vote, which had originally been courted by the pro-choice Jimmy Carter. And so now, the pro-life stance is lumped together with every other heartless, socially conservative policy.


Difference between a Conservative and Liberal, Conservatives set high moral standards and occasionally fail to live up to them; liberals seem to have no moral standards and yell at Conservatives for not being perfect.

You want to dish it out, you better be prepared to get it thrown right back in your face.


Where the hell did you get the notion that liberals have no morals? Liberals believe that the notion that altruism is part of our (yes, Judeo-Christian) western heritage, and so we should act as a society - and as individuals - care for those who don't have, is indeed a moral stance. Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks), they believe altruism can only be expressed on an individual level.
Regarding sexual morality - well, that is an individual decision that must be respected, as we live in a democracy, as long as the participants are consenting adults. Shoving one's moral disapproval down the throats of someone for their personal conduct doesn't have a place in a free society. If you don't like a particular behavior, you don't have to do it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



iamnotaparakeet
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28 May 2011, 4:28 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks)...


This should be printed, laminated, and placed upon vehicles.



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28 May 2011, 6:10 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks)...


This should be printed, laminated, and placed upon vehicles.


That's my dying hope. :)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 May 2011, 6:21 pm

cave_canem wrote:
USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Here's the secret.... They aren't Pro-Life! They're just Anti-Women.

I call it being anti-murder. But that's just me.


LOL, says the guy who's motto appears to be "peace through superior firepower"

You obviously failed to understand the saying. It means if you have the bigger gun, the bad guys (or the ones with brains) won't f**k with you.



cave_canem
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28 May 2011, 7:05 pm

USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Here's the secret.... They aren't Pro-Life! They're just Anti-Women.

I call it being anti-murder. But that's just me.


LOL, says the guy who's motto appears to be "peace through superior firepower"

You obviously failed to understand the saying. It means if you have the bigger gun, the bad guys (or the ones with brains) won't f**k with you.


Riiiiiiiiiight. Because we see this happen in reality all the time. More likely the guys with the big guns go in and blow the "bad" guys to bits... sometimes, they go in and blow up ordinary people to bits...
[sarcasm]Yes, I can see how this promotes "peace"[/sarcasm]



Inuyasha
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28 May 2011, 7:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
katzefrau wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.


don't be obtuse. no one is in favor of murdering infants.

Actually the pro-abortion crowd does favor the murder of infants, heck some of your abortion doctor heros murder infants that are born alive after a botched abortion and your crowd doesn't even bat an eye.

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's because the pro-life movement has so thoroughly been taken over by the Republican right. Originally, liberals like Jesse Jackson were pro-life, while conservatives like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice - it had been a non-partisan issue. But than, Ronald Reagan had turned opposition to abortion into a plank in Republican political campaign in order to capture the pro-life evangelical vote, which had originally been courted by the pro-choice Jimmy Carter. And so now, the pro-life stance is lumped together with every other heartless, socially conservative policy.


Difference between a Conservative and Liberal, Conservatives set high moral standards and occasionally fail to live up to them; liberals seem to have no moral standards and yell at Conservatives for not being perfect.

You want to dish it out, you better be prepared to get it thrown right back in your face.


Where the hell did you get the notion that liberals have no morals? Liberals believe that the notion that altruism is part of our (yes, Judeo-Christian) western heritage, and so we should act as a society - and as individuals - care for those who don't have, is indeed a moral stance. Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks), they believe altruism can only be expressed on an individual level.
Regarding sexual morality - well, that is an individual decision that must be respected, as we live in a democracy, as long as the participants are consenting adults. Shoving one's moral disapproval down the throats of someone for their personal conduct doesn't have a place in a free society. If you don't like a particular behavior, you don't have to do it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Problem with your argument is that a child is a seperate entity and as such we have adults choosing whether or not a child gets to survive because they are under a certain age. The argument over sexual morality doesn't work when it comes to abortion due to the fact we have a life in the equation.



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28 May 2011, 7:20 pm

cave_canem wrote:
USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
cave_canem wrote:
USMCnBNSFdude wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Here's the secret.... They aren't Pro-Life! They're just Anti-Women.

I call it being anti-murder. But that's just me.


LOL, says the guy who's motto appears to be "peace through superior firepower"

You obviously failed to understand the saying. It means if you have the bigger gun, the bad guys (or the ones with brains) won't f**k with you.


Riiiiiiiiiight. Because we see this happen in reality all the time. More likely the guys with the big guns go in and blow the "bad" guys to bits... sometimes, they go in and blow up ordinary people to bits...
[sarcasm]Yes, I can see how this promotes "peace"[/sarcasm]

Does the avatar say this happens all the time? No. It's hardly proposing the idea.

And yes, it does promote peace. Peace through fear.



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28 May 2011, 8:16 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
katzefrau wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Actually, perhaps they're against capital punishment for murderers because they are in favor of the murder of infants.


don't be obtuse. no one is in favor of murdering infants.

Actually the pro-abortion crowd does favor the murder of infants, heck some of your abortion doctor heros murder infants that are born alive after a botched abortion and your crowd doesn't even bat an eye.

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's because the pro-life movement has so thoroughly been taken over by the Republican right. Originally, liberals like Jesse Jackson were pro-life, while conservatives like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice - it had been a non-partisan issue. But than, Ronald Reagan had turned opposition to abortion into a plank in Republican political campaign in order to capture the pro-life evangelical vote, which had originally been courted by the pro-choice Jimmy Carter. And so now, the pro-life stance is lumped together with every other heartless, socially conservative policy.


Difference between a Conservative and Liberal, Conservatives set high moral standards and occasionally fail to live up to them; liberals seem to have no moral standards and yell at Conservatives for not being perfect.

You want to dish it out, you better be prepared to get it thrown right back in your face.


Where the hell did you get the notion that liberals have no morals? Liberals believe that the notion that altruism is part of our (yes, Judeo-Christian) western heritage, and so we should act as a society - and as individuals - care for those who don't have, is indeed a moral stance. Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks), they believe altruism can only be expressed on an individual level.
Regarding sexual morality - well, that is an individual decision that must be respected, as we live in a democracy, as long as the participants are consenting adults. Shoving one's moral disapproval down the throats of someone for their personal conduct doesn't have a place in a free society. If you don't like a particular behavior, you don't have to do it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Problem with your argument is that a child is a seperate entity and as such we have adults choosing whether or not a child gets to survive because they are under a certain age. The argument over sexual morality doesn't work when it comes to abortion due to the fact we have a life in the equation.


What about the life of the child already born, but who has had the bad luck to be born into a poor family? What do you say about those conservatives who cause the deaths of such children by refusing to extend nutritional and medical aid? Or worse, that they cut funding for such aid. If abortion is murder, I personally would consider this to be murder as well, particularly in a country with boundless wealth as ours.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 May 2011, 8:44 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Problem with your argument is that a child is a seperate entity and as such we have adults choosing whether or not a child gets to survive because they are under a certain age. The argument over sexual morality doesn't work when it comes to abortion due to the fact we have a life in the equation.

Problem with your argument is that a zygote is not a child.


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28 May 2011, 9:05 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Conservatives, on the other hand, I concede can be moral people (though many are in fact heartless, judgmental pricks)...


This should be printed, laminated, and placed upon vehicles.


Just give me one that says "Heartless, judgmental Conservative prick" and I'll stick one on my back window/tailgate, bumper, and even a plate holder with that logo. To me it's a badge of honor if it comes from a liberal or any of them see it.