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The Origins of Christianity

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naturalplastic
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18 Feb 2012, 4:00 pm

pandabear wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

And the 23rd Psalm starts with the word "Shake", and ends with the word "spear". Which proves that the Psalms of the BIble were all written by Shakespeare!


You must be thinking of a different psalm--I don't know which one.

Psalm 23 wrote:
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


I didnt expect someone to actually look it up.

There is SOME psalm that has what I said. I read a book that quoted somebody else quoting it.

Oh well!

Well- what the OP is saying makes about as much sense as saying that the singer Rhianna is making a coded homage to a certain other female vocalist of a previous generation because in one of her hit songs she sings the refrain "ella ella ella ella "



pandabear
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18 Feb 2012, 5:02 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
the singer Rhianna is making a coded homage to a certain other female vocalist of a previous generation because in one of her hit songs she sings the refrain "ella ella ella ella "


She's not the only one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jlYB5ielJ8[/youtube]



MCalavera
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18 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
1. The two Nativity accounts are the only ones in the Gospels that mention Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus.

2. There's a strong theological purpose for why the authors of both Matthew and Luke would've wanted him to be born in Bethlehem.

3. The Nativity accounts don't even agree with each other on many of the significant elements of the story except that Jesus was born of a virgin and in Bethlehem.

4. The two accounts also actually contradict each other.

5. The two accounts contradict well-accepted history. For example, the worldwide census in Luke.

6. Jesus is referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of Bethlehem.

7. The author of John mentions Bethlehem but never mentions it as the birthplace of Jesus. Instead, it is implied that the author took it as Jesus being born in Nazareth when he shows confusion by the fact that a Nazarene is the prophesied Messiah that was supposed to come forth from Bethlehem according to the OT and not Nazareth.

8. The fact that Nazareth is even mentioned.

You do the maths.


I was never really good at math.
Just a thought, though. As the Gospels were written perhaps several decades after the fact, the exact details may have been lost - hence the contradictions.
And even if Jesus was born in Bethlehem, he had lived most of his life in Nazareth. Hence, Jesus of Nazareth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


What's the point of Nazareth if God said the Messiah would spring forth from Bethlehem?

Your argument still isn't convincing.



Kraichgauer
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18 Feb 2012, 8:23 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
1. The two Nativity accounts are the only ones in the Gospels that mention Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus.

2. There's a strong theological purpose for why the authors of both Matthew and Luke would've wanted him to be born in Bethlehem.

3. The Nativity accounts don't even agree with each other on many of the significant elements of the story except that Jesus was born of a virgin and in Bethlehem.

4. The two accounts also actually contradict each other.

5. The two accounts contradict well-accepted history. For example, the worldwide census in Luke.

6. Jesus is referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of Bethlehem.

7. The author of John mentions Bethlehem but never mentions it as the birthplace of Jesus. Instead, it is implied that the author took it as Jesus being born in Nazareth when he shows confusion by the fact that a Nazarene is the prophesied Messiah that was supposed to come forth from Bethlehem according to the OT and not Nazareth.

8. The fact that Nazareth is even mentioned.

You do the maths.


I was never really good at math.
Just a thought, though. As the Gospels were written perhaps several decades after the fact, the exact details may have been lost - hence the contradictions.
And even if Jesus was born in Bethlehem, he had lived most of his life in Nazareth. Hence, Jesus of Nazareth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


What's the point of Nazareth if God said the Messiah would spring forth from Bethlehem?

Your argument still isn't convincing.


I'm not really trying to argue anything. I'm just saying that these seemingly questionable passages may simply have innocent explanations. For instance, as I've said previously, Jesus may have been born in Bethlehem, but lived most of his life in Nazareth. And while there may have been question about a census of some sort in which Joseph was supposed to travel back to his ancestral home - but perhaps, he had actually been from that Bethlehem in the first place, and took Marry there to have the baby, then go to live in her home town later.
I don't pretend to be up on the historical/critical method of Biblical study - and I agree that it certainly is important - but like anything else, it can sometimes lead to nitpicking.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



MCalavera
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18 Feb 2012, 9:06 pm

But again, what's the point of Nazareth if God himself prophesied Bethlehem?

Why didn't God have him be from Bethlehem all the way and not cause so much confusion with his prophecies?



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18 Feb 2012, 9:26 pm

shrox wrote:

You do realize we know who Jesus was, and where he came from? And you do realize if he rose from the dead, there would be no bones? And a dead god pretty much defeats the purpose of being god?


That is a great Story. Were you there to witness it?

The overwhelming case is that the dead stay dead and their bodies rot.

ruveyn



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18 Feb 2012, 9:41 pm

MCalavera wrote:
But again, what's the point of Nazareth if God himself prophesied Bethlehem?

Why didn't God have him be from Bethlehem all the way and not cause so much confusion with his prophecies?


I always thought he only had to be born there to confirm prophesy, but otherwise he could live anyplace he wanted. But that's just me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Newtonscat
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18 Feb 2012, 11:40 pm

It's great to see I've started some debate (not that I agree with a lot of what's being said). If you want something really bizarre read 'The Great Pyramid: It's Divine Message' by David Davuidson. In it he works out the exact fime., to a fraction of a second, that Jesus's heart stopped beating when he was on the cross.

Chous also means "grave" (as well as the other meanings someone mentioned)

I DO believe that St Paul was an actual living person. Indeed, I think HE was the Messiah. Paul had an absolutely AWESOME intellect ... he was probably the most intelligent man of his time.

'Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy To Invent Jesus' by Joseph Atwill is the most interesting book I've read about the possible origins of Christianity.

One thing ... I think that Richard Dawkins has spent most of his adult life throwing the babies (plural) out with the bathwater.

A few months ago some research on the brain function of people with Asperger's CLEARLY showed that Asperger's is NOT autism ... it merely has a few behavioural traits that are similar to autism. (Selective/Elective mutism, for instance). Asperger's exists in at least 5 different forms (I'm an 'Emily Dickinson' type)

There's a certain slant of light
Winter afternoons
That oppresses like the heft
Of Cathedral tunes

Heavenly hurt it gives us
We can find no scar
But internal difference
Where the meanings are

None may teach it any
'Tis the seal, despair
An Imperial affliction
Sent us of the air

When it comes, the landscape listens
Shadows hold their breath
When it goes 'tis like the distance
On the look of Death

Emily Dickinson



Alexender
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18 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm

Link to the article?



naturalplastic
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18 Feb 2012, 11:57 pm

pandabear wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
the singer Rhianna is making a coded homage to a certain other female vocalist of a previous generation because in one of her hit songs she sings the refrain "ella ella ella ella "


She's not the only one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jlYB5ielJ8[/youtube]


Interesting.

I find this Alizee person to be quite fascinating.

How did you become an expert on Gaulic top 40?

What is a "Quelgra Chose"? And do the really have them in Tennesee?

When they displayed the tracks on her CD on the song titles was "Quelgra Chose de Tennesee".



naturalplastic
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18 Feb 2012, 11:59 pm

pandabear wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
the singer Rhianna is making a coded homage to a certain other female vocalist of a previous generation because in one of her hit songs she sings the refrain "ella ella ella ella "


She's not the only one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jlYB5ielJ8[/youtube]


Interesting.

I find this Alizee person to be quite fascinating.

How did you become an expert on Gaulic top 40?

What is a "Quelgra Chose"? And do the really have them in Tennesee?

When they displayed the tracks on her CD on the song titles was "Quelgra Chose de Tennesee".



Newtonscat
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19 Feb 2012, 12:01 am

This anagram will really "annoy" some people (it's best to laugh at it)

Simwn Petros = Mortws penis (cf. Latin, 'Mortuus penis', "dead penis")

If you want a real laugh:

Anthony Charles Lynton Blair = I shall control earth by nanny (or, maybe: "Nanny, I shall control earth by ...???")

Gordon James Brown is an easy one:

'Jew God born on Mars'

Barack Hussein Obama is interesting:

'Abu Khan boss America' (I emailed the CIA and told them about this)

I run a risk of getting executed as a traitor if I tell you what her Majesty the Queen's full name anagrams to ... all I can say is it's got the word 'Lizard' in it. I think David Icke's subconscious must have noticed this.

Christ, World Ruler, Pharoah ... is Prince Charles - but it carries on with 'nuttee man, got big penis'

Who is the 'God of Anagrams'?

I claim absolutely no responsibility if reading my posts drives you insane or seriously damages your belief that you're not in some wild dream from which you're gonna wake up soon and find I don't exist.

Who knows ... I might actually be 'God' (I've toyed with the idea ... )

'What is not is not what it is ... and not what it would be if it were'

Does the above make sense or not? If you think it does please explain it to me ... it does my head in trying to get my mind around it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUwWizXeS2U[/youtube]



Fnord
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19 Feb 2012, 1:23 am

Anagrams are nothing more than coincidental arrangements of letters. There is no meaning or significance to the various words that can be formed.

There is no valid reason to believe otherwise.



Newtonscat
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19 Feb 2012, 1:39 am

Fnord wrote:
Anagrams are nothing more than coincidental arrangements of letters. There is no meaning or significance to the various words that can be formed.

There is no valid reason to believe otherwise.


My name anagrams to 'Devil raped Satan' ... this is of no significance, of course.

I once had a girl-friend whose name anagrammed to:

'Adore warm semen jelly' (Jane Rosemary Medwell)

... she did.

Shag me in larder (Geraldine Marsh) unfortuntaely doesn't have a larder.

Tell me your girl-friend's name and I'll anagram it. He he.

Oh, by the way. It's now very easy to change your name online in the UK. It only costs £33 ... Let's see now? What does 'I'm the sexiest man alive' anagram too?



Fnord
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19 Feb 2012, 1:46 am

Newtonscat wrote:
... Tell me your girl-friend's name and I'll anagram it. He he.

I don't need you for that.

Wordsmith's Internet Anagram Server

Brendan's On-Line Anagram Generator

Online Anagram Finder & Generator

Intelligently-written anagram generators are plentiful.



MCalavera
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21 Feb 2012, 6:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
But again, what's the point of Nazareth if God himself prophesied Bethlehem?

Why didn't God have him be from Bethlehem all the way and not cause so much confusion with his prophecies?


I always thought he only had to be born there to confirm prophesy, but otherwise he could live anyplace he wanted. But that's just me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Micah 5:2 says that he has to be from there. Not necessarily just be born there.