Regarding Netflix's Black Cleopatra

Post Reply New Topic

Bassem identifies as Arab in the US. He has suddenly "found" an Egyptian identity in order to insert himself into the conversation. The girl is doing the same thing. What they are doing is objecting to a woman of sub-Saharan origin playing an Egyptian. That opposition is infact anti-islamic as racism is anti-islamic.

Both of them are falling into the same game as Zahi Hawass which is to deny a cultural connection to sub-saharan africa and project that Cleopatra was cultural icon of Egypt (despite her obvious cultural connection to Greece/Macedonia not Egypt).

Modern Egypt (both ethnically and culturally) identifies with "Arabic culture", that was pretty obvious when Gamel Abdul Nasser introduced pan-Arabism when Egypt politically dominated the Arab region in the 1950s and 1960s. Egypt was also one of the instigators of the Arab Spring around a decade ago.

Even the name Egypt is of Greek origin. The name was derived from the Greek name "Aigyptos". Modern Arab Egyptians don't care about that so why should they care about what Cleopatra looked like?

Its funny that no Egyptians objected to a non-Egpytians like Gal Gadot or Jordanian Nadim Sewalha playing Cleopatra in recent times. Is it because they are "white passing?"

"No Egyptians" objected to Gal Godot playing Cleopatra?

Except for the millions, including that giri herself in the above video...she rants about at 6:33.

None of which has anything to do with the subject.

You obviously didnt even watch the video. She makes it quite clear why Egyptians object.

They are bringing her (Gadot) up now so they don't look racist targeting this one actress in Netflix

Yes I did and you seem to have conveniently missed her stupid comments at the beginning, She claims she is 100% Egyptian and she has the freedom of speech to say what she wants. Calling yourself 100% Egyptian is like a Dominican in the US saying I am not black, I am 100% Dominican. It avoids the question (overseas people are now behaving like Americans in avoiding their own ethnicity when talking about black people).

She also starts her rant with "I am not racist but..." which is the calling card of racist white Americans who want to appear non-racist but are about to launch into a racist tirade (I'll give Bassem some kudos as he's a little more clever in not falling for that trap).

The girl was obsessed about one thing, That was the tone of skin of Cleopatra. To me this what is valued (not the lack of historical accuracy in portraying Cleopatra as some warrior queen (which she wasn't) by both Bassem and this girl. Like I said she took ownership of Cleopatra as "my queen" but it shows she and Bassem are ignorant of the history of Egypt and that Cleopatra was an "imposed" ruler of Egypt so was no different to saying Lord Mountbatten was an emperor of India because he lived in India, ruled the country on behalf of the British Crown and spoke Hindustani. They have appropriated her into their culture when Cleopatra was not Egyptian, she was 100% Greek Macedonian and spoke Greek and Roman.

See also talked about hair and clothing.

You conveniently ignore the fact that the girl in the video acknowledged all of that stuff about how Cleopatra was Greek. Not only acknowledged that but thats her very point. That American Blacks are making a Black icon out of "the Whitest Queen in Egytian history"(her exact words).

Thats her main point. And she is 100 percent right that American Blacks doing that is absurd. Cleopatra was part of the "Whitest" dynasty to rule Egypt.

And Cleopatra IS "her queen". She reigned in Egypt.

The Ptolemy Dynasty was foreign, but they ruled Egypt from Egypt. She was like the last Emperor of China (not a Han Chinese, but a Manchu descended from the Manchu conquerors of China in the 1600). Alexander failed to create a centralized world empire. So the Greek rulers of Egypt were not like the later Roman rulers of Egypt, or like the British rulers of India. The place was not part of an outside bigger centralized empire. And there was a lot cultural cross pollination between Greeks and Egyptians in that Hellenistic era. Like the Chinese can claim their last emperor as their own, and Egyptian could claim Cleopatra.

And what exactly is wrong with her saying that she is "100 percent Egyptian"? How is it "stupid"?

Not the same. The first emperor was Qin which were simply predecessors of the Han, they could speak to each other in the same language/dialect, followed same culture, religion and genetically identical.

The muslim Arabs (whom both Bassem and the girl are) are culturally, religiously and ethnically quite different from the people who built the old kingdom of Egypt, and even less in common with Cleopatra.

Because you live on land once occupied by another civilisation does not make you the owners of their legacy, If that was the case then Sudanese and horn Africans have equal cultural connections as much any modern Arab speaking Egyptian.

No, it was a big issue at the time too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55409187

The Coptic language was actually descended from ancient egyptian language; it remains to be the the liturgical language of copts, and it was called the "Land of the Copts". I recall I saw a study that both Muslim Egyptians and Christian Egyptians (Copts) originate from common ancestors.
Just because they got Arabized doesn't mean they got totally replaced by invaders, that's like saying that Mexicans are totally Spaniards.

This is precisely why I used the Mexican analogy. Also not all the Spanish speaking Mexicans and Arab speaking Egyptians have genetic connections to the old kingdoms of the Yucatan peninsular or lower Egypt. Mexico was occupied by many tribes who were enemies of the Olmec, Aztec or Maya. Likewise Egypt was made up of wave after wave of peoples who became part of the fabric of Egypt since the new kingdom.

I very much doubt Bassem or the girl from the video have a drop of Macedonian blood or speak Greek. They are claiming to be heirs of the cultural legacy of Cleopatra. If that is the case then so too are Nubians, Sudanese, Somali and Ethiopians whose culture was also synonymous with lower Egypt and who logically (based on the reasons thrown around) can claim Cleopatra is part of their legacy. If Bassem wants to see a Egyptian face like his on Cleopatra then why can't a Sudanese nubian want to see a black face on Cleopatra? its equally valid based on the reasons provided.

You have to take into account geography, culture and history when talking about cultural ownership (not just race)
A perfect example is stonehenge in England. Many English claim it's their birthright. The reality is the builders of stonehenge and nearly all megalithic monuments and civilisations in Europe were wiped out in the paleolithic era. When people want to see what the builders of stonehange looked like, they probably resembled the type of human who was also responsible for building the first ancient civilisations in Egypt, middle east and India


This is why projecting modern concepts of race onto ancient times is meaningless

^ No people remained « pure » to « their » ancients, that’s a genetic reality, true.

Both assumptions: local continuity and local disconuity of peoples over thousands of years are over simplifications.

Thats Cheddar Man.

Many living Brits have been famously matched to that guy in DNA tests despite having different skin color.

Who are you to dictate to Egyptians what they should and should not claim?

And if Egyptians cant claim their own past then why are you insisting that American Blacks CAN claim Egypt's past? Wouldnt that be even more absurd?

You seem want modern Egyptians to be your allies by them taking the side of American Blacks. The girl in the vid is right to resent being used as a pawn in American race relations.

Ancient and Modern Egyptians are a mix of peoples. But none of the peoples in the mix are related to either Whites inthe Jim Crow south, or to Blacks in the Jim Crow south (except the latter do have some kinship to Egyptians). So modern American movie makers cant project either Jim Crow race onto Egyptians. Thats the girl's point. And she is right. And your arguments just prove her point.

Both Bassem and the Egyptian girl are entitled to seek affiliation with whom they want but...why focus on Cleopatra's race when infact the real issue is historical inaccuracy. Jada Pinkett Smith is not an expert and the Egyptian government is entitled to ban this stupid remake. But my problem is with the intent behind the cancellation. Not the act of cancelling what is a terrible documentary (I will not be watching it). I feel 99% of the anger is coming from people who have no stake in Cleopatra's ethnicity (Only Greek and Macedonian people have this right).

Also if Egyptians are unanimous in their opposition they can vote with their feet and boycott the series. I think legal action to cancel Netflix is somewhat funny given Egyptian people want their government to stop restricting their freedoms

I would be curious if darker skinned Egyptians like the series?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8tMBt ... tsParodies

Egyptians have darker skin than white people, so I think it paints a more accurate picture.