California to Require Gay History in Schools

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 3:06 am

PM wrote:

unduki wrote:

PM wrote:

It seems this is only in the curriculum because of politics. Everyone regardless of sexual preference, race, or religion can contribute to History. To put it bluntly, education and politics don't mix.

People said the same kind of stuff about the Civil Rights movement back in the 60's. Imagine excluding Martin Luther King, Jr. from history because he was about civil rights for African Americans. We include Suffragettes and they only fought for the rights of women. All of these inclusions had to be legislated first. Isn't the GL movement worth mention in our history? It's all a part of who we are as a nation.

Did you not read the part where I said that everyone can contribute to History?

The problem is that those that have contributed to history are often skipped over if they happen to be LGBT. Either that, or important details about them are never taught.

Why? Because politics has already entered the classroom.

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PM
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29 Dec 2011, 3:09 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

PM wrote:

unduki wrote:

PM wrote:

Did you not read the part where I said that everyone can contribute to History?

Then the obvious solution is to get Politics (and Religion) out of the classroom, not that it should have been there in the first place.

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29 Dec 2011, 3:19 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Obres wrote:

Instead of this useless BS, Americans need a class that teaches them how to be responsible consumers and not buy a bunch of stuff they don't need, a class in nutrition and an extra period of phys ed so maybe we won't all be diabetic fat-asses driving up health care costs, and about 4 more periods/day of math because frankly that's what forms the basis of business and technology, which is what our society is built on.

When I was in school, I hardly ever got much out of PE, because of the emphasis on team sports, which only the jocks excelled in. I think PE should focus on calisthenics, running, and weight training, so every student can individually enjoy the benefits of physical activity.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Those were PE classes one could choose when I was in school.

That was the case in high school, but prior to that, PE was just playtime for the jocks.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 4:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

That was the case in high school, but prior to that, PE was just playtime for the jocks.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I don't remember elementary PE or middle school PE, really, so I'll have to take your word for it.

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scubasteve
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29 Dec 2011, 6:17 am

Try to separate the facts from the politics here. The facts are certain distinguished gay and lesbian individuals who have had a significant impact on American society. The politics are how we characterize their impacts. That, IMO, should never be taught in schools. The facts, however, should be taught in every school, in every state in the country. Facts are not politics. Facts are social studies.

techstepgenr8tion
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29 Dec 2011, 8:41 am

Obres wrote:

Actually, aside from strengthening math and science I really think we need to focus big on both civics and *personal finance* (not a problem if people spend but we're turning out tons of financial illiterates from high schools).

On the gay history topic - I did start one of the older threads. My own opinion is that I'm fine with it unless they try to sanction a specific percentage of teaching content and start leaving the space of relevant learning. If they want to mention in passing that certain historical figures were LGBT that's fine so long as the kids are learning about them based on the impacts that their actions and/or achievements had on the world.

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visagrunt
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29 Dec 2011, 1:43 pm

The inclusion of LGBT individuals in history does not serve to exclude teaching of other subjects. No one is talking about dropping math to make room for gay history.

Now I don't doubt that in some (many?) schools the quality of mathematics education is shockingly bad, and literacy levels among students completing high school (I won't describe them as "graduating") are appalling. But adding references to LGBT figures to the history curriculum does not foreclose making improvements to math and english curriculum.

What does foreclose these things is taxpayer parsimoniousness. Governments have very few discretionary areas of spending, but education is one of them. The unwillingness of taxpayers to fund government has not led to the collapse of programs, it has led to the death of a thousand cuts.

There's an interesting study by some Texas A&M economists on the consequence of tax cuts on public programs:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on- ... ice=mobile

So the next time you are bemoaning the quality of your public education system, look to your tax bill for the cause.

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29 Dec 2011, 1:59 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Waste of time? Hardly. Kids these days don't get half the exercise they should.

If your kids are not having enough exercise, make them have exercise one more hour. Phys ed class should be dropped altogether from school and replaced with more free time. Phys ed is a waste of time and money. Every kid should do exercise the way that is most convenient for him/her in the time that is most convenient. For you, exercise might be running around for an hour, but for many kids exercise would mean playing some sport. And for other kids it would mean just walking from home instead of taking the bus. Plus another obvious thing is that different people need different amount of exercise, so to think it is something that can be imposed will just teach these kids that exercise sucks.

Quote:

A healthy body goes a long way to ensuring a healthy mind,

This phrase gets repeated all the time. But I never saw anything to make me believe it is true. Surely in extreme cases your body would be in such a bad shape that you won't be able to think. But in more normal cases I really doubt it matters that much.

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Actually, aside from strengthening math and science I really think we need to focus big on both civics

Civics, talk about BS school subjects. Might as well put swastics all over the notebooks.

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techstepgenr8tion
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29 Dec 2011, 2:07 pm

visagrunt wrote:

There's an interesting study by some Texas A&M economists on the consequence of tax cuts on public programs:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on- ... ice=mobile

So the next time you are bemoaning the quality of your public education system, look to your tax bill for the cause.

That opens a whole other can of worms as well - on both sides of the isle. This kind of thinking would not only analyze and break down credit by credit, loophole by loophole, but it would likely also bring all kinds of things into question about other programs such as entitlements. Good leaders might be able to pull such a thing off, politicians though - I'm somewhat doubtful.

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AceOfSpades
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29 Dec 2011, 2:52 pm

visagrunt wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Meh i think all these special history months are pointless. Its better to just integrate all these things into the regular curriculum. Why give special attention to something when you could let it blend into normalcy?

First and foremost because I don't want to be blended into normalcy.

I am different than the majority in my society. Among other things, I am Jewish, I am gay and I am an Aspie. I don't want these things to be "normal." I don't want to be "just the same as everybody else." To my mind this is tantamount to saying that the things that make me different are not important.

visagrunt wrote:

Well they are important. I want to live in a society in which diversity is celebrated. I want to see a generation in which all people's differences are seen as strengths that make our communities more successful and more prosperous.

I don't think people's differences should be embraced or vilified. I think it shouldn't be such a big deal in the first place. One's background should stay in the background.

visagrunt wrote:

The diverse communities that are subject to the greatest amount of repression are the same communities that should be actively supported. For now, the abyssmal rates of suicide by gay and lesbian teens suggests that this is a group crying out for support and attention. It is not the only one, to be sure (just ask any aboriginal, black or muslim teen...) but that does not invalidate the need.

There's no doubt about that but my idea of active support isn't necessarily casting a spotlight on the issue but just having it out there which is why I think all these things should simply be a part of the regular curriculum. When differences continue to be made a big deal out of one way or the other, it only continues to make it a controversial issue. Not that oppression should be ignored or made light of, but if both the accomplishment and oppression of gays are just out there rather than being covered exclusively then that means gays can settle into the melting pot rather than just being stirred up in it.

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29 Dec 2011, 5:48 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

This is where we differ big time. I don't want my own differences to be made such a big deal out of. I am an individual above all and I try to see others as individuals as much as I can. To me, you being gay is as significant as being left handed. I don't see it as a part of you, but as just another fact about you. Hell, AS is just another fact about me.
...
I don't think people's differences should be embraced or vilified. I think it shouldn't be such a big deal in the first place. One's background should stay in the background.
...
There's no doubt about that but my idea of active support isn't necessarily casting a spotlight on the issue but just having it out there which is why I think all these things should simply be a part of the regular curriculum. When differences continue to be made a big deal out of one way or the other, it only continues to make it a controversial issue. Not that oppression should be ignored or made light of, but if both the accomplishment and oppression of gays are just out there rather than being covered exclusively then that means gays can settle into the melting pot rather than just being stirred up in it.

That strikes me as the fast road to mediocrity. The "melting pot" seems to me to be a way for assimilationists to pay lip service to minorities before forcing them into the pre-approved mould.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 6:05 pm

PM wrote:

Then the obvious solution is to get Politics (and Religion) out of the classroom, not that it should have been there in the first place.

Then who would decide what needs to be taught and what shouldn't be?

Like it or not, politics is an integral part of society.

I agree about religion, though. That's what church is for.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 6:10 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Waste of time? Hardly. Kids these days don't get half the exercise they should.

Kids already think exercise sucks because there's 'other more fun' things to do. I agree that parents need to take responsibility for this, but I don't see how it's so wrong that schools continue with it. Children need consistency, and they're stuck in desks for a large portion of their days.

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A healthy body goes a long way to ensuring a healthy mind,

If you don't believe it, then I can't say much to convince you otherwise. The proof is readily available, if you choose to educate yourself.

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PM
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29 Dec 2011, 6:11 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Then who would decide what needs to be taught and what shouldn't be?

The educators and experts should decide what is relevant to teach.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 6:15 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

On the gay history topic - I did start one of the older threads. My own opinion is that I'm fine with it unless they try to sanction a specific percentage of teaching content and start leaving the space of relevant learning. If they want to mention in passing that certain historical figures were LGBT that's fine so long as the kids are learning about them based on the impacts that their actions and/or achievements had on the world.

I believe that's what's been implemented, but seeing as neither of my kids are in school yet and I've been out for 11 years, I can't say for sure.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Dec 2011, 6:18 pm

PM wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Then who would decide what needs to be taught and what shouldn't be?

The educators and experts should decide what is relevant to teach.

Ah, but the problem there is that many areas would have very different ideas on this issue. This, obviously, would create problems and the way to remedy that is to unify and decide together.

Not to mention there are many people within the education system that can't separate this from their politics. Just as many refuse to separate it from their religion.

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