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sliqua-jcooter
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14 Jul 2013, 11:47 am

thomas81 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin at the time of the attack. There is no evidence that Zimmerman did or said anything to provoke Martin. Regardless of what you believe, it has to be proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

From article in OP
Quote:
The earlier call, made to a non-emergency police line by Zimmerman, caught the defendant using profanities that were repeated by the prosecution to try to show he acted with spite, ill-will and hatred, the benchmarks for a second-degree murder conviction.

"f***ing punks. These a**holes, they always get away," assistant state attorney John Guy said as he began his opening argument on the first day of the trial. "Those were the words in that grown man's mouth as he followed in the dark a 17-year-old boy that he didn't know."

He concluded by telling the jury: "George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him for the worst of all reasons, because he wanted to."


Just because some lawyer says it, doesn't mean it's true. Actually, you can assume the opposite.


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thomas81
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14 Jul 2013, 12:17 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin at the time of the attack. There is no evidence that Zimmerman did or said anything to provoke Martin. Regardless of what you believe, it has to be proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

From article in OP
Quote:
The earlier call, made to a non-emergency police line by Zimmerman, caught the defendant using profanities that were repeated by the prosecution to try to show he acted with spite, ill-will and hatred, the benchmarks for a second-degree murder conviction.

"f***ing punks. These a**holes, they always get away," assistant state attorney John Guy said as he began his opening argument on the first day of the trial. "Those were the words in that grown man's mouth as he followed in the dark a 17-year-old boy that he didn't know."

He concluded by telling the jury: "George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him for the worst of all reasons, because he wanted to."


Just because some lawyer says it, doesn't mean it's true. Actually, you can assume the opposite.


all that stuff was said in-court. I'm pretty sure that using falsehoods as testimonial evidence is a felony under US law.


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sliqua-jcooter
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14 Jul 2013, 12:18 pm

thomas81 wrote:
all that stuff was said in-court. I'm pretty sure that using falsehoods as testimonial evidence is a felony under US law.


It wasn't testimonial evidence - it wasn't even evidence - it was the prosecution's opening statement. You can say pretty much anything you want in an opening statement.


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simon_says
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14 Jul 2013, 12:42 pm

The only one who knows what started the fight is Zimmerman and the jury was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That's not a scenario someone in future can rely on. You need to have the right jury. He was smart not to take the stand in case he came across as shifty. If the jury didnt like him he could be sunk.

Unfortunately I think he can now make money from this. He could write a book, get appearance fees, etc. He'll be living in a mcmansion in Sarasota within three years. Then bankrupt probably.



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14 Jul 2013, 1:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
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... No witness could refute the accidental drowning,which left the evidence of a body in the trunk of there car moot. As much as I strongly believe Anthony had a hand in her daughters death. It was the police not the jury who dropped the ball. The jury did what the Constitution of this nation forced them to do.

Which was to render a verdict based on the evidence and testimony as presented, and not on the shouting lynch mobs, the media circuses, or the emotional reactions to the deaths of children.

If it weren't for the Constitution and the Rule of law, there would still be witch hunts and executions based solely on suspicion, prejudice, and hysteria.

While it is true that Anthony and Zimmerman were acquitted, they will never be truly free as long as people feel butt-hurt over the verdicts.

Thats exactly what my post said.the jury got it right on casey anthony.the blame for the tragedy was for 1.on the local police for using bad search tactics.here in new england,whether its a lost hiker or hunter or a dead body believed to be in the woods somewhere.our game wardens,state police with cadaver dogs and forest rangers WILL!! find any person live or dead faster then you can say missing.

the prosecution should have had manslaughter on the menu and the death penalty of the menu.not because doesnt deserve a "hot shot" or life without parole.
the D.A' should have been more humble about there case because jurors take reasonable doubt more seriously when death or life without parole in the sentence.
when a persons life is a stake they take reasonable more literaly,but if the punnishment is less they often view what is or is not reasonable doubt in a less serious and common sense way.
not everyone defines reasonable doubt the same,punnishment is most severe,reasonable doubt gets expanded


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14 Jul 2013, 1:47 pm

I would like to ask all of those that come here to say they were disappointed in the verdict... did you even watch the trial? The whole thing? Or did you just lap up the crap the news media was serving?

The prosecution did not do very well. They had no facts, no solid evidence or was even able to provide a reasonable motive to accuse the defendant of malicious killing. All they did was pump in innuendo, assumptions (one in particular taken to the wild side) and tried to play the race card very poorly.

Do note that the fact that the defendant was latino and not 'white' blew the prosecution's race card attempt out the window. It was painful to watch.

The defense on the other hand presented FACTS. They had evidence, experts and testimony that indicated at every step that the fight between the two of them had Trayvon as the one winning the fight (aka, delivering the damage).

The moment the photo of Trayvon's body was shown and when Zimmerman's face was shown...where Trayvon's face had no injuries and his chest had no blunt force (fists) damage while Zimmerman's face was a mess and his hands were all messed up was the moment the defense basically won the case. The experts and evidence presented did not support that Zimmerman had the upper hand at all in that fight.

Who stalked who and who started the fight is impossible to know. Neither side could provide a believable sequence of events... and the defense had the advantage because the prosecution's witness (the girlfriend) testified that prior to the fight Trayvon was less than 70 feet from the house he was going to in the first place and she also testified that it was Trayvon who turned around and confronted Zimmerman aggressively. Common sense indicates that someone who is not in an aggressive mood will not turn around to face a possible threat rather than rush to safe haven that was less than ~70 ft ahead.

The jury simply could not find him guilty. It all pointed to self defense and he is protected by stand your ground law in that regard.



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14 Jul 2013, 2:02 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
if you have ever watched the show "north woods law" about the Maine fish and game officers you would know that those game wardens could find a lost pet gerbal in 5000 acres of woods.combine fish and game officers with cadaver dogs,caylee would been found at the 30 day not 90 day stage of her disapearence.which means cause of death known.


Unfortunately that is incorrect. Florida weather will accelerate the decomposition process significantly. A body exposed to hot/warm air, high humidity and scavengers (all of which were excessively abundant in this case) is skeletonized completely in less than 8 days. Given the factors of the time and weather of the time the girl went missing it is very likely her remains were fully skeletonized in just 5 days tops. Given the delay in reporting her missing and the time it takes to prep search parties and dogs.. her remains would've been the same if she was found within the week.

Quote:
as much as i strognly believe anthony had a hand in her daughters death.it was the police not the jury who dropped the ball.the jury did what the connsitution of this nation forced them to do


The possibility that it was the grandfather's doing is quite high in this case. No matter how you see it, the entire thing gravitates around him. I think he did it.



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14 Jul 2013, 2:03 pm

albedo wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Zimmerman was acquitted the minute his lawyer succeeded in keeping blacks off the jury. The case was over at that point. Sanford, FL is one-third black. But they didn't have even one single African American on the jury. If they had even one black member on the jury, it would have been at least a hung-jury, maybe even a conviction.


May not know the American legal system like the back of my hand, but it largely based on ours, in which case it is unlawful to make a jury selection based on race requirements.

Primarily it is random, then they ask question based on if they have prejudicial views of the case, or are related to any of the people involved, etc.


True but if all the Black guys are saying hang him without seeing evidence then where is his fair trial. I don't thing this was hand picked in his favor.



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14 Jul 2013, 2:08 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Thats exactly what my post said.the jury got it right on casey anthony.the blame for the tragedy was for 1.on the local police for using bad search tactics.here in new england,whether its a lost hiker or hunter or a dead body believed to be in the woods somewhere.our game wardens,state police with cadaver dogs and forest rangers WILL!! find any person live or dead faster then you can say missing.

the prosecution should have had manslaughter on the menu and the death penalty of the menu.not because doesnt deserve a "hot shot" or life without parole.
the D.A' should have been more humble about there case because jurors take reasonable doubt more seriously when death or life without parole in the sentence.
when a persons life is a stake they take reasonable more literaly,but if the punnishment is less they often view what is or is not reasonable doubt in a less serious and common sense way.
not everyone defines reasonable doubt the same,punnishment is most severe,reasonable doubt gets expanded


I agree that they should've gone for a lesser charge like manslaughter. I also think the Police should've drug tested Zimmerman after the shooting, like they did to Treyvon's corpse.

I would've been happy with a 9 year sentence.


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sliqua-jcooter
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14 Jul 2013, 2:15 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
I agree that they should've gone for a lesser charge like manslaughter.


Manslaughter was an included lesser charge in the trial.


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thomas81
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14 Jul 2013, 2:26 pm

another interesting tidbit, apparently the NRA picked up the bill for Zimmerman's lawyer.


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sliqua-jcooter
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14 Jul 2013, 2:28 pm

thomas81 wrote:
another interesting tidbit, apparently the NRA picked up the bill for Zimmerman's lawyer.


The NRA offers self-defense insurance policies that pay for lawyers in self-defense cases.

Even then, his lead attorney - Mark O'Mara was working pro bono.


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14 Jul 2013, 3:19 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
I agree that they should've gone for a lesser charge like manslaughter. I also think the Police should've drug tested Zimmerman after the shooting, like they did to Treyvon's corpse.


I believe that is standard procedure in any homicide. Trayvon's drug results are on display because he tested positive for a minute amount of MJ in his system (probably smoked a day or two before).

Quote:
I would've been happy with a 9 year sentence.


I'm glad the jury did not agree with you. They ruled on facts not 'this would make me feel good/justice been done' emotions.



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14 Jul 2013, 4:44 pm

The real tragedy is the Martin family is missing their child.No matter what the verdict was,it would never bring their son back.


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14 Jul 2013, 5:11 pm

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It is a shameful time to be a white American.


That's a rather dumb statement make.

1. I am white American. I had nothing to do with the crime or trial, so why would I feel any shame for it?

2. Zimmerman is not white. He is half white and half Hispanic. According to USA law he can file minority on job applications, census, affirmative action, etc. So according to federal standards, this is a minority on minority issue. The media likes to make it out to be white on minority to sensationalize the story and you bought it.

If Zimmerman had been shot by a white person, the media would be saying white on minority crime. They will say or interpret it anyway they want to sensationalize the story.



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14 Jul 2013, 5:57 pm

Martin's family has already won a settlement from the HOA for letting Zimmerman run around playing cop. Which sucks for the locals. I'm not sure how they'll pay it. Possibly by increasing their fees to residents. So everyone in the subdivision would have to pay for Zimmerman's actions. I pay HOA myself and would hate to have to kick in more because my neighbor was a cowboy. Maybe they can pay it another way.

Zimmerman himself is going to get some cash out of this somehow and least some of the legal work must have been paid for so the lawyers got their money and / or pound of fame.

Everyone will make a buck really, cept Martin and the HOA.