20 Oct 2013, 5:42 am
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
91 wrote:
Won't be long now until someone brings up the arguments from the zeitgeist documentary. 
What is wrong with having a debate about the Zeitgeist documentary? It was completely fallacious. Horus and Mithras do not share any similarity with Jesus. None of them were born from a virgin, Mithras was born of a stone and Horus was born from Isis who was impregnated by Osiris. Nor were they born of the December, Horus was born somewhere around October I believe and Mithras does not have a Birthday. Yes, there may be some links between Paganism and Christianity in so far that trees are worshiped and mistletoe is hung and various things like that. If someone could point me to some empirical evidence as to which historian thinks that, I would appreciate it. In terms of mythology though, Christmas is quite original. Not that I am a Christian, I find it an absurd religion.
Forget what Zeitgeist is saying. You don't need it. But there is plenty of evidence pointing to the notion that Christmas is not original and is in fact a celebration of the sun's rebirth.
Please see:
Winter Solstice
An alphabetical list is given of midwinter celebration, also an explanation of the difficulty in observing the actual day or instant of the solstice. Of significance is Sol Invictus, the Roman solstice festival.
Thank you for the information. I shall check that out. I was not really disputing that Christianity was paganistic in some way, I am sure it is. I was just questioning the fact that it shares its symbolism with Mithras, Horus, Krishna and other gods when actually in that respect, it is hugely original. I shall read a bit more up on it. The winter solstice is on the 21st, so why do Christians worship it on the 25th?
The winter solstice is an instant of time that occurs either on the 21st or 22nd Dec, depending on the year. As I've tried to explain to others, the observation of this instant is impossible, particularly for an individual standing on the surface of the Earth. The only way of knowing that the solstice has occurred is to take several observations of the sunrise/sunset positions (using stone circles perhaps) for several days (at least 2), before it can be seen that the sun has completed it's retreat to the southern part of the horizon, and is now making its progress northward again (for someone in the northern hemisphere at least). The notion implies that from 21st to 23rd (at least) there could have been no knowledge that the solstice had passed. Only on the 24th or 25th Dec can anyone be certain it has passed. So perhaps 25th was the first day the ancients could confidently say the sun had been reborn.
20 Oct 2013, 6:03 am
20 Oct 2013, 6:17 am
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20 Oct 2013, 9:07 pm
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Christmas is a holiday that was hijacked by the Christian church. Prior to Christianity it was a pagan festival to celebrate the re-birth of the sun in its annual cycle. Christmas day represented the first day of the new solar year and was celebrated all across Europe and much of the northern hemisphere for centuries before this tale of Jesus came about.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
Oh, really? Now how come I didn't read any of that in history books?
I dunno. Because your history books suck?
That's not really a response is it? You could make any ludicrous theory up and then when someone says they did not read that in history, pull the 'your history books suck card out' and not have to provide any evidence. I must admit, I have heard the pagan-christian theory many times before and it seems very likely since the notion of a dying-and-ressurecting god I believe has pagan roots )although I cannot be sure) and the worship of Christmas trees seems very paganistic. Saying this however, no-one has ever provided ANY evidence of that from some history book. If anyone could, it would be great.
I was presuming that the OP did in fact read his history books (I was taking his word for it), and the fact is that a lot of history books do suck. Especially in places like the US where they have to be pre-aproved to be acceptable to certain political and religious ideologies.
20 Oct 2013, 10:05 pm
20 Oct 2013, 10:20 pm
Max000 wrote:
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Christmas is a holiday that was hijacked by the Christian church. Prior to Christianity it was a pagan festival to celebrate the re-birth of the sun in its annual cycle. Christmas day represented the first day of the new solar year and was celebrated all across Europe and much of the northern hemisphere for centuries before this tale of Jesus came about.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
Oh, really? Now how come I didn't read any of that in history books?
I dunno. Because your history books suck?
That's not really a response is it? You could make any ludicrous theory up and then when someone says they did not read that in history, pull the 'your history books suck card out' and not have to provide any evidence. I must admit, I have heard the pagan-christian theory many times before and it seems very likely since the notion of a dying-and-ressurecting god I believe has pagan roots )although I cannot be sure) and the worship of Christmas trees seems very paganistic. Saying this however, no-one has ever provided ANY evidence of that from some history book. If anyone could, it would be great.
I was presuming that the OP did in fact read his history books (I was taking his word for it), and the fact is that a lot of history books do suck. Especially in places like the US where they have to be pre-aproved to be acceptable to certain political and religious ideologies.
I have no connection to the US.
I seriously have never read that Christmas was about the sun's rebirth and all that. And I read a lot of stuff about that period and before.
20 Oct 2013, 10:31 pm
MCalavera wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Christmas is a holiday that was hijacked by the Christian church. Prior to Christianity it was a pagan festival to celebrate the re-birth of the sun in its annual cycle. Christmas day represented the first day of the new solar year and was celebrated all across Europe and much of the northern hemisphere for centuries before this tale of Jesus came about.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
Oh, really? Now how come I didn't read any of that in history books?
I dunno. Because your history books suck?
What do your history books say? Oh, right, you're just being snarky while being ignorant at the same time.
Please educate yourself, so you don't make a fool out of yourself like this.
Start here: Saturnalia
20 Oct 2013, 10:34 pm
MCalavera wrote:
Max000 wrote:
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Christmas is a holiday that was hijacked by the Christian church. Prior to Christianity it was a pagan festival to celebrate the re-birth of the sun in its annual cycle. Christmas day represented the first day of the new solar year and was celebrated all across Europe and much of the northern hemisphere for centuries before this tale of Jesus came about.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
Oh, really? Now how come I didn't read any of that in history books?
I dunno. Because your history books suck?
That's not really a response is it? You could make any ludicrous theory up and then when someone says they did not read that in history, pull the 'your history books suck card out' and not have to provide any evidence. I must admit, I have heard the pagan-christian theory many times before and it seems very likely since the notion of a dying-and-ressurecting god I believe has pagan roots )although I cannot be sure) and the worship of Christmas trees seems very paganistic. Saying this however, no-one has ever provided ANY evidence of that from some history book. If anyone could, it would be great.
I was presuming that the OP did in fact read his history books (I was taking his word for it), and the fact is that a lot of history books do suck. Especially in places like the US where they have to be pre-aproved to be acceptable to certain political and religious ideologies.
I have no connection to the US.
I seriously have never read that Christmas was about the sun's rebirth and all that. And I read a lot of stuff about that period and before.
Well were ever you are from, your education system has failed you.
20 Oct 2013, 10:55 pm
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Christmas is a holiday that was hijacked by the Christian church. Prior to Christianity it was a pagan festival to celebrate the re-birth of the sun in its annual cycle. Christmas day represented the first day of the new solar year and was celebrated all across Europe and much of the northern hemisphere for centuries before this tale of Jesus came about.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
I think about that as the real meaning of Christmas day.
Oh, really? Now how come I didn't read any of that in history books?
I dunno. Because your history books suck?
What do your history books say? Oh, right, you're just being snarky while being ignorant at the same time.
Please educate yourself, so you don't make a fool out of yourself like this.
Start here: Saturnalia
Already checked that link long time ago, and it has nothing to do with Christmas itself.
It seems you are making a fool out of yourself. Get back to education before it's too late for you to learn anything new.
20 Oct 2013, 11:06 pm
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20 Oct 2013, 11:26 pm
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