The Rich is causing our misery
Mikah wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Mikah wrote:
You should be far more worried about euthanasia becoming slowly legalised and culturally acceptable. It won't be long before everyone not self-supporting is under overwhelming social pressure to take a short one way trip to the clinic...
What gives you the right to deny others the right to a peaceful death? Forcing people to live when they don't want to is cruel. The social pressure argument has no basis in reality.
Who are you to oppose socialism? Could it be that attempting to do a good thing (helping the poor) has historically had disastrous unintended consequences and may well do so again if tried? It's true that we do not have the same level of data for easy and legal euthanasia, compared to socialism's repeated failures, but it is perfectly fine to speculate what might happen and oppose it, just as there were opponents before the socialist disaster.
Social pressure is a real thing. There is quite a bit of data about television's effect on suicide statistics. Some drama has a man commit suicide by putting his head under on a train track... data shows this not only increases the relative number of suicides-by-train in the following weeks, but the absolute number rises too. A very worrying correlation whose mechanism is easy to comprehend.
I'm not saying we will be living in Logan's Run by the next year, but there will be a slow, creeping change of some sort in the culture. I've already seen news items on this from when it was made legal in Switzerland. An old person gets some fatal, but slow acting disease. They parade them sympathetically on television - they say "I want to die with dignity" "I don't want to be a burden on my family" "My inheritance won't get eaten up keeping me alive." The news item is sympathetic and we are supposed to applaud such bravery.
"Dying with dignity" = good, applause
"Not being a burden" = good, applause
"Better for family" = good, applause
Unless we are incredibly careful, the message sent here is "staying alive when disabled" = burden and "being a burden" = bad. Our desire to be kind and understanding to those in pain may quite unintentionally create a very twisted cultural pressure. We've quickly transitioned in the last century from a society where suicide is a mortal sin, to one where it is good in some circumstances and never a cowardly act. A little more scepticism please.
Socialism is taking away someone else's rights. Denying people the right to buy lethal drugs to kill themselves takes away their right. No one chooses to be born forcing people to live when they don't want is cruel.
thinkinginpictures wrote:
"Can't keep up during work assessment? Stop complaining - You can always get euthanasia!"
- that's for real. It happens in The Netherlands.
- that's for real. It happens in The Netherlands.
That is not surprising, though it has happened quicker than I would have imagined. This is the culture we are diving head first into. If something is made "good", this is never an isolated event, ripples appear in the tide pools of morality and culture.
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Daniel89 wrote:
Socialism is taking away someone else's rights. Denying people the right to buy lethal drugs to kill themselves takes away their right. No one chooses to be born forcing people to live when they don't want is cruel.
I'm not saying it isn't cruel, I'm saying there may be unintended consequences.
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Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
Mikah wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Socialism is taking away someone else's rights. Denying people the right to buy lethal drugs to kill themselves takes away their right. No one chooses to be born forcing people to live when they don't want is cruel.
I'm not saying it isn't cruel, I'm saying there may be unintended consequences.
Forcing people to live forces them to suffer. Even if someone is pressured into being euthanized they will not suffer.
auntblabby
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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Daniel89 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
by not carrying their fair share in society, they are worsening conditions for the 99%.
That's factually incorrect. The rich pay more taxes, in many western countries the majority of the population are net beneficiaries of the state.
how is corporate welfare an example of the wealthy "carrying one's weight" in society? how are pro athletes via convoluted muni-fund schemes that avoid most taxation [google it] carrying their weight" compared to the rest of us? how are pro sports teams being categorized as non-profit orgs,"carrying their weight"?
Daniel89 wrote:
Even if someone is pressured into being euthanized they will not suffer.
You are unintentionally proving my point about morality and culture here.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
auntblabby wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
by not carrying their fair share in society, they are worsening conditions for the 99%.
That's factually incorrect. The rich pay more taxes, in many western countries the majority of the population are net beneficiaries of the state.
how is corporate welfare an example of the wealthy "carrying one's weight" in society? how are pro athletes via convoluted muni-fund schemes that avoid most taxation [google it] carrying their weight" compared to the rest of us? how are pro sports teams being categorized as non-profit orgs,"carrying their weight"?
I don't know about those specific American laws. If a company is getting welfare then clearly that is wrong but we don't claim all companies are and that all rich people are to blame. Still the statistic show that higher income people pay more in income taxes and use fewer services.
Mikah wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Even if someone is pressured into being euthanized they will not suffer.
You are unintentionally proving my point about morality and culture here.
At the end of the day its about freedom you either believe people should have a choice about their life or they shouldn't.
Mikah wrote:
You should be far more worried about euthanasia becoming slowly legalised and culturally acceptable. It won't be long before everyone not self-supporting is under overwhelming social pressure to take a short one way trip to the clinic...
Given that suicide is viewed so negatively in our society, I see no reason to be scared.
I see no evidence that our society is becoming more accepting of euthanasia.
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Daniel89 wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Socialism is taking away someone else's rights. Denying people the right to buy lethal drugs to kill themselves takes away their right. No one chooses to be born forcing people to live when they don't want is cruel.
I'm not saying it isn't cruel, I'm saying there may be unintended consequences.
Forcing people to live forces them to suffer. Even if someone is pressured into being euthanized they will not suffer.
In that case, perhaps we should just encourage everyone to get euthanized.
That way, there will be no more people, which means there will be no more war, crime or violence.
_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
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DarthMetaKnight wrote:
In that case, perhaps we should just encourage everyone to get euthanized.
That way, there will be no more people, which means there will be no more war, crime or violence.
Very few people would actually take up the option. As an Antinatalist I do think a world without people would be better.
Daniel89 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
In that case, perhaps we should just encourage everyone to get euthanized.
That way, there will be no more people, which means there will be no more war, crime or violence.
Very few people would actually take up the option. As an Antinatalist I do think a world without people would be better.
This is now a VHEMT thread.

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Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
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thinkinginpictures wrote:
DISCLAIMER:
I don't really wish the following to come true, all I want is welfare and peace, and this thread is more about desperation than anything else. I don't want dictatorship and I do NOT want a lot of people imprisoned.
All I want is to stop hatred against the welfare state and those recieving welfare benefits.
----
Original post:
I don't really wish the following to come true, all I want is welfare and peace, and this thread is more about desperation than anything else. I don't want dictatorship and I do NOT want a lot of people imprisoned.
All I want is to stop hatred against the welfare state and those recieving welfare benefits.
----
Original post:
Quote:
The rich people pay very little taxes in relation to their wealth compared to the ordinary working class people.
They are the sole cause of the drastic reforms in many western countries. They are the cause of our misery and our poverty, the rich take all our money and give little back. The rich also controls the democratic institutions and threaten to withdraw their values if democracies don't conform to the will of the rich.
They do pay higher taxes, but RELATIVE to their WEALTH they pay virtually nothing. The rich owns 90 % or more of the entire wealth of the earth's population, and the very rich don't have to work. Many choose to work, but they can stop at any moment and just live off their enormous wealth and have others do the dirty work.
The work the rich do, is therefore more like a hobby than a job.
I suggest the nations of the planet should cease all the assets and valuables of the rich, imprison them and force them to hard labor. Hand out the money to the poor and working class people and give everybody else (except the now formerly rich) Basic Income and the liberty to choose to work or not, but with incentives to work.
This will create fairness and justice for everybody!
They are the sole cause of the drastic reforms in many western countries. They are the cause of our misery and our poverty, the rich take all our money and give little back. The rich also controls the democratic institutions and threaten to withdraw their values if democracies don't conform to the will of the rich.
They do pay higher taxes, but RELATIVE to their WEALTH they pay virtually nothing. The rich owns 90 % or more of the entire wealth of the earth's population, and the very rich don't have to work. Many choose to work, but they can stop at any moment and just live off their enormous wealth and have others do the dirty work.
The work the rich do, is therefore more like a hobby than a job.
I suggest the nations of the planet should cease all the assets and valuables of the rich, imprison them and force them to hard labor. Hand out the money to the poor and working class people and give everybody else (except the now formerly rich) Basic Income and the liberty to choose to work or not, but with incentives to work.
This will create fairness and justice for everybody!
This was actually essentially what North Korea did. The North Korean elite were once poor peasants and the poor North Korean peasants were once rich land owners. But looking at North Korea, one can see economic stratification has formed among the elite with the most privileged living in beach houses and going on shopping sprees in western markets.
In large societies, wealth equality is an unstable state.
Concerning taxes, the income of most people in the U.S. is ordinary income. Salaries and wages. The rich are more likely to receive income from invesrments. Income from investments is taxed at lower rates than ordinary income as an incentive to get people to invest.
Let's say you and Bill manage to save up $1000 after taxes. You decide to buy a $1000 TV and home theater system from Sony. Bill decides to invest all of his. Let's say Bill buys stock in Sony. You both gave money to Sony but you get something out of it...a new TV, while Bill might lose all of his money.
So Bill needs some incentive to take such a gamble.
Investing helps companies secure larger profits by helping them develop products and services and capture market segments they would not have been able to from sales money alone and when companies grow, their number of employees tend to grow as well....meaning the number of people the government can tax at ordinary income rates grows.
So the government thinks it's profitable for Bill to invest.
So they say "Hey Bill. If you take your $1,000 and invest it, if you profit from that investment, we'll tax you at a rate lower than ordinary income, and if you don't profit, we might allow you a deduction on your taxes so losing $1,000 doesn't hurt so bad,"
That is why rich people pay lower taxes.
If you want to be upset about something what you should really consider focusing on is money sinks. When a small number of people get a lot of money from a large number of people and the money does not get redistributed in the economy. For example landlords and high rent areas who do not reinvest the money and let it accumulate in bank accounts instead, or landlords who invest the money overseas.
That money does not trickle down.
I still can't believe how low this thread has sunk.
People seriously believe that suicide is a better solution to poverty than ending poverty.
Perhaps, at some point in the future, minorities will be encouraged to euthanize themselves because euthanasia is easier than ending racism.
It could happen.
This thread has officially killed my soul.
_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
READ THIS -> https://represent.us/