Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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My female ancestors always worked. Before the industrial revolution, they were domestic servants. My dad has traced our family tree right back, so I know this.

Every man I've ever dated with the exception of my current husband has denied masturbating.

Maybe it's just some pointless lie that NTs tell.

Well, the problem is that this is not something you're supposed to talk about. ^^

There are many things related to sex and sexuality that you're not supposed to talk about, unless, as puddingmouse said, it's marketable. Because you're told that you're supposed to discuss certain things. And other things are "your business". So, women are not supposed to discuss "men's" issues and vice versa.

Her wikipedia page makes me pattern match her as at least sexist.

She spews typical anti-feminist BS arguments like "women just like biology all is fine". Oh and she wrote The war on boys? She is such an idiot then. She also sounds like your typical Fox News conspiracy theorist idiot when she says that there is a Liberal Agenda in university.

But you should note the use of the word 'often'. I mean that it is often the misogynists that rush to attribute misandry to just about any voice asking to improve the situation for women. I am not saying that all such criticisms are misogynous. But I cannot help but notice that all over the years I have seen the same pattern emerge in internet discussions. Someone makes the slightest a remark about gender equality. And then come the nefarous horde of people awfully offended by feminism. THOSE FEMINAZIS ARE MISANDRISTS. Yet 95% of the time, the people reacting like this are the ones that have serious issues against women. And, just like in this thread, expect to see flood after flood of misquoting and straw feminism.


It is porn and rape for you, mister.

I must be a misogynist.

I actually never said that men who are misogynists don't do that but you didn't qualify your statement by saying some or many. Have you read any of her books? I would like you to qualify that statement. She doesn't say all feminists, and I find it pretty amusing that you are calling someone who actually is a feminist herself, an anti-feminist and sexist.

And what's wrong with talking about biology? Is it sexist that men can't have babies?

I saw a homemade porno clip from Scotland the other night. It was hilariously tragic and in fact deeply depressing. Let's just say that when I saw it I was rather embarrassed for everyone in that clip. It was like a hideous re-enactment of the worst kind of misogynistic porn complete with really stupid faces and inane comments. What the woman was getting from hanging out with those unpleasant losers I don't know.

Sexist is a term for gender discrimination so by that regard, its perfectly possible and it seems in many cases probable that a hardcore feminist is also a sexist. This isn't racism where only the white man can be racist. However, I largely agree with most of what Hoff Sommers said in her book "Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women" and that's where my anti-feminist stance comes from.

I heard a man claim that he wanted to join a feminist club but they would not let him in because only a woman can be a feminist.

Actually, racism cuts both ways too. Being non-white doesn't make you a non-racist.

I know, I was being sarcastic and pointing out that saying that a feminist cannot be sexist is like saying that non-whites can't be racist.

The only racist people are white so shut the hell up you cracker-ass honky kuffar!

You have completely gotten the wrong end of this argument. First of all, I completely agree with you. In fact, the fact that some people who make claims of misandry against feminists might be right and not misogynist themselves is exactly the argument that I was trying make in reply to Vexcalibur.

The actual context my quote is that I was replying to Vexcalibur's claim that Hoff Sommer's arguments were sexist against women, not men. So please read the whole argument, starting from my first reply to Vexcalibur and then direct your arguments to the right person. Thank you.

I'm not sure what the exact original words were, but if this was the one who said 'all sex is rape' or 'all sex is rape in a patriarchal society', that's raving loony territory.

If the point was that society is patriarchal and that porn proves this, I don't think it does. That porn has some icky misogynistic things in it doesn't imply that society is misogynistic. Porn is about fantasies, frequently unrealistic ones. I've had fantasies where I was the owner of a harem of pretty slave girls whose only desire was to please my every whim. Not only is that never going to happen, if it did, I wouldn't like the reality nearly as much as the fantasy.


I think this is a problem, but it's a particular instance of a larger class of problems: fictional entertainment being mistaken for an instruction manual.


There is too much degradation in porn, but I don't think that can be used as a barometer of what society thinks of women, and I don't think that the presence of some degradation in porn is necessarily a bad thing. Sexual degradation can be quite stimulating for both the degrader and the degradee. Part of the whole BDSM thing is to have a safe place for sexual degradation.

For the several people who don't think that the degradation that happens in porn is a problem and that it doesn't necessarily reflect or impact on reality, I have to disagree with you. Media is produced by, reflects, and impacts culture in a constant interaction, and (to take a less serious example) advertisements that constantly show men as idiots who are incapable of ironing a shirt (or the recent trend in comedies to portray men as basically overgrown 13 year olds) without burning it are also damaging on a subtle level.

Ok, so porn is about fantasies: why do so many men fantasize about degrading women sexually, or even violently? That a lot of men do so can't be in doubt, because there's a huge market for this stuff. Why is it better/easier/more entertaining to get your rocks off watching a woman humiliated and unhappy* than it is to watch a couple in mutual play? Because that latter type of sex is *not* what sells well.

*or feigning happiness with behavior that no one with decent self-esteem would enjoy.

Edit: two other points that I'd like to re-emphasize. They've been covered already, but can use restatement. First, sexism and misogyny are not the same thing. Sexism is basically the holding of unfair and/or disproven stereotypes about one gender (usually women, but often men) or the other. Misogyny/misandry is the active dislike or hatred of women/men either because of the stereotypes one holds, or because a given woman/man does not fit one's idea of what women/men *should* be.
Second, it is entirely possible (though less common) for a member of a group to be biased and/or hateful towards that group.