UK rubbish at corruption

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Recently we had a big scandal with MPs expenses. You might have heard about that. I'm not defending them at all. However no one seemed to realise how much it was lazy politics, the way each party where accusing each other. The timing couldn’t have been worse (perfect for them) right in the middle of an economic crisis.

Let’s be practical though. Compare MPs expenses to multimillion dollar payoffs given to failed bankers, and that's not even illegal. With MPs no one I'm aware of reached the £50K mark. The total need to be repaid is roughly £500K conservative.

Go over the pond. Check out the corruption scandals in local government in places like New Jersey and Illinois. We are talking multi million here, from official most people have never heard of.

There was plenty of corruption in the 90s and before. MPs that were infamous businessmen, etc. But everything has an "independent enquiry" nowadays. We even have "independent enquiries" for "independent enquiries". The correct answer for every problem is a…"independent enquiry".

Sleaze is still alive and well. Most recently the Conservatives attempt to obtain funding from a Russian oligarch. But now that we have made it impossible not to declare political funds, due to previous corruption scandals. It all over before it began. The fact is that a. Russian oligarchs don’t really care that much either way b. as soon as anyone get wind of it they want nothing to do with them anyway. The feeling is mutual. In fact the conservatives and Russian Oligarchs are like a chalk and cheese.

In the UK we have a gift for bureaucracy. This can be expensive and largely pointless, but to a certain extent we have insulated ourselves from certain types of corruption that can be very expensive too, because we are rightly always concerned about how thing are going because we like to stick the knife in if we are honest.

The issue isn't about the figures involved for me. The issue is the fact that if i had done what they done i'd be in a prison cell for between 6 - 10 years; whereas they get a slap on the wrist.

Um that depends on the POV. Legally you are wrong (bar some exception for straight fraud), but you re not an MP so it doesn't apply to you, But it was pretty grey area legaly what constituted expenses, that was the problem

The real truth about MPs expenses, if you are talking about MPs not already made of money with moats and duck houses, the basic salary isn't enough to cover their work in some cases, especially those who have to commute to Westminster, and are sharing their time. This is the reality, this scheme came about because peoples' perception of MPs being all overpaid. What they should have done is be honest about it, instead they devised a scheme that was self regulated (and never going to last) so they could sweep the issue under the carpet.

Compare MPs salaries with other western nations and see for yourself.

To be honest most people who are advised they can claim on this will to I. I'd bet my bottom dollar on it. The worst ones are those that knew how to play the system for all its worth. Those ones can't claim they didn't know that they were doing, and they tended to be the ones with other sources of income.

The fact is people want to be lied to. Every election they want to hear the same lies, because people refuse to be realistic and never learn. So it is no surprise that we have dishonest politicians. The main requirement to be successful is to be convincing in the lies and enigmatic.

If most people were doing half the things that the MPs were doing they would be doing prison sentences for theft or fraud. All parties are the same it is no wonder some neurotypical people think that a Neo Nazi party is the best option of a bunch of bent politicians. In our so-called democracy there are a number of political parties to choose from but what if they are all as bent as a £9 note bent as in currupt here. They do nothing for the working class That being the Labour or Conservative parties they are just a bunch of complete imbeciles while trying to get Britain run like a maximum security prison.

A gray area? Charging £2000 expenses on a duck-pond in your back-garden is NOT a gray-area.


Not only do they get a house provided for them and have all their travelling expenses covered, but they are also paid £50'000+ basic wage. The basic salary and expenses are MORE than enough to give them a very decent (better than 99% of the population) lifestyle.


Actually it boils basically down to the fact that they are a bunch of thieves. Actually look at what these people are claiming for, it's frigthening and has nothing to do with their work.

I don't think it is either. However it was a grey area what exactly what could be claimed which is precisely why these sort of claims were possible. Bureaucracy works through blanket rules not good sense.


You are making out as is their salary is just for their lifestyle, I don't think you are alone in thinking that. But it is not accurate. It is not a salary in the conventional sense. The salary and other private funding they can secure through fundraising is a budget to do their work. They have to pay for their offices and staff, research, community liaison, appointments.

You are right that many of them do not need that money. Probably a great deal more that half do not need it. But there are some that do and that is the reason this happened. The ones that did need it probably didn't claim, because they realised it was an unethical system. That is the irony.

It is no surprise to me that it happened.

We need to make it cheaper to do politics. Soap box politics is dead. But unless they are campaign caps and so forth they are always going to try and outdo each other, until all politicians are the types that have country estates with duck ponds and moats, and need their 10 thousand trees inspecting.

Do you want it to be like the billion dollar campaigns in the US?

In the states many politicians get most of their money from powerful lobbyist groups, all private affairs, so be careful what you wish for.



I agree. In all probabilty I also think, that with human nature, if you were an MP I would say there is a greater than 50% change you would be a lying thief too. If you dangle free money in front of people, they take it.

Do you think the picture is better in business?

Not a bit. Dangle "free" money in front of people and 9,999 out of 10,000 will grab for it. It is human nature.

ruveyn

In order to insulate yourself from corruption, is first to be realist and not naive. Be part of the solution not the problem.

One of the reasons why politics is expensive, is people need to be dazzled with more flashily bushtit than before. They are turn off politics because they are lie to. But they want politician to commit to thing that are impossible to achieve.

I think you got my point.

I am not being an apologist for these MPs. What they did was wrong no doubt about it. I am however a realist, and take responsibility for my small part, even if it includes ignorance and complacency.

The real joke is many of these politicians were privileged enough to get a lot more money from other areas that were less open to public eyes, they were just too stupid to realise it and this was more likely to blow up in their faces during their career.

it is also very odd but fitting the people made more of a fuss of this than the failed bankers. You can't even begin to compare the amounts.

Not even the politicians could touch them. The best they could do is try to introduce a retrospective law to tax them at 90%, but it is probably not going to happen.

People didn't get that politicians were lapping this up MPs expenses thing, it was easy for them, couldn’t have gone better. It is was a opportunity to make it look that their party was better than the other when really they were all equally as bad. For once a topic close to home, that requires little intelligence to know the correct response. Never mind everything else that was going on in the country. MPs probably happy that it lasted that long, and that a brand new spanking system would be installed. They each would get their own leash, so they don’t have to try and outdo eachother on expenses.

In New Jersey the other day they swept up a bunch of mayors, officials and even rabbis who were involved in all sorts of rackets, including organ smuggling, following a ten-year investigation.

That said, corruption is normal operating procedure in the United States... with Republicans having truly made it an institution (though it's not limited to them, of course). By that I mean selling off parts of the government to associated private concerns (in the name of their public-bad, private-good ideology), allowing that private concern to skim a huge percentage and provide worse service than was provided before. That concern then gives some money to the politician and then they think of some other racket. Iraq was the worst racket of that kind - the functions of the Iraqi government were sold off to well-connected concerns who were paid huge amounts of money for so-called reconstruction that mostly did not happen, and everything was done to enrich themselves... they were extremely inefficient, importing workers and cement when they could have used local workers and cement for much, much less.

Governments and rackets. Ying and Yang.

ruveyn