My Brother is calling me a racist for being Anti Zionist

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AngryJessman
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19 Oct 2009, 6:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
AngryJessman wrote:

No, I used the word Jew as i don't live my life scrolling through the dictionary for the racially correct term "Jewish",


Not racial. Grammatical. Do you know the difference between a noun and an adjective?

ruveyn


please spare me the lectures on English, as long as you understand the point of a conversion/arguement, why do you care and nitpick?

btw if you are Jewish.... blame Sacha Baren Cohen for promoting the use of the word "Jew"..... not me

also doing a quick google search I notice many anti-semites use the word "Jew",.... so I am sorry if you are Jewish and I've caused offence



ruveyn
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19 Oct 2009, 8:44 am

AngryJessman wrote:

please spare me the lectures on English, as long as you understand the point of a conversion/arguement, why do you care and nitpick?


Because I am an Aspie and that is what Aspies do.

ruveyn



skafather84
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19 Oct 2009, 6:08 pm

An American scientist who worked for the US defence department and the space agency Nasa has been charged with attempted espionage, officials say.

Stewart David Nozette tried to give classified information to a person who he believed was an Israeli intelligence officer, the justice department said.

The 52-year-old, who once had top security clearance, was arrested on Monday by FBI agents, it added.

The complaint does not allege Israel or anyone acting for it violated US law.

Mr Nozette, who is expected to appear in court in Washington on Tuesday, faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted.

"The conduct alleged in this complaint is serious and should serve as a warning to anyone who would consider compromising our nation's secrets for profit," said US Assistant Attorney-General David Kris.

According to an affidavit, Mr Nozette worked at the White House on the National Space Council from 1989 to 1990, where he developed a radar experiment that purportedly discovered water on the moon.

He then spent 10 years at the Department of Energy's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, where he designed highly advanced technology.

In 2000, he set up a company that developed advanced technology for the US government, including for the Pentagon and Nasa.

"From 1989 through 2006, Nozette held security clearances as high as Top Secret and had regular, frequent access to classified information and documents related to the US national defence," the justice department said in a statement.

Last month, Mr Nozette was contacted by an undercover FBI agent posing as an Israeli intelligence officer, whom he allegedly told he would be willing to regularly answer questions about classified information in exchange for money and an Israeli passport.

Over the course of the next month, the scientist provided letters with answers containing information "classified as both Top Secret and Secret that concerned US satellites, early warning systems, means of defence or retaliation against large-scale attack, communications intelligence information, and major elements of defence strategy", the justice department said.

In return, Mr Nozette accepted cash totalling $11,000, it added.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8315538.stm
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I think Israel has had more spies infiltrate our government than the USSR did.

/friends don't spy on friends


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AngryJessman
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19 Oct 2009, 11:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngryJessman wrote:

please spare me the lectures on English, as long as you understand the point of a conversion/arguement, why do you care and nitpick?


Because I am an Aspie and that is what Aspies do.

ruveyn


Now that you mention that I'd probably do the same thing ha ha



mikecartwright
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25 Oct 2009, 12:52 pm

I am Anti Zionist and I do not hate Jews.



ruveyn
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25 Oct 2009, 4:12 pm

skafather84 wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Israel has had more spies infiltrate our government than the USSR did.

/friends don't spy on friends


Produce some statistics to back that assertion.

ruveyn



showman616
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09 Nov 2009, 8:39 pm

Im in a similiar philosophical jam.
Im a wasp gentile.
When I was lke in jr. high I wondered aloud one day why the jews needed their own country- and if they did need their own country why couldnt theyve carved it out of some coastal stretch of the Australian Outback instead from a place that already had people?

My sister reprimanded me for being anti-semitic. I protested that I was "anti-zionist' not anti-jewish. She insisted that those things are one and the same.

So I caved and just kept my mouth shut about it for decades around jews and gentiles alike.

But now my girl friend keeps sounding off on the oppisite point of view. She finnally got me to admit that I thought that "giving the jews Isreal is like Sid Ceasar proving he is descended from Julius Ceasar, and then expecting the world to give him the throne of all of the modern nations that were once of part of the Roman Empire".

So, does that make me an anti-jewish bigot?

I dont know.

But there is an interesting wrinkle to the question.

When the state of Isreal was first formed in the late fourties- it angered the orthodox jews who considered this new state to be "a blasphemy". god was supposed to recreat Isreal-not man.

Within a few years -the orthodox decided that "the state of isreal is a reality so why fight it" and now the orthodox are the most organized political interest group in Isreal.

But- one orthodox splinter group remains anti-zionist.

Some of them live in Isreal where they call themselves "Palestinian Jews"- because they agree wih the Arabs that there is no state of Isreal.

So apparently it is possible to be a Jew, and not be a Zionist!



visagrunt
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15 Nov 2009, 5:55 am

I am a Jew, and I am a Zionist.

That does not mean that I support the actions and policies of the government of Israel. That does not mean that I do not support the creation of a Palestinian State.

But it must not be forgotten that Israel is a Parliamentary democracy. Arabs sit in the Knesset. Arabs have risen to the highest levels of the public service and to the Cabinet. Granted, the presence of Arabs at the highest level is the exception rather than the rule, but one can well suppose that the position of Arabs within Israeli society is considerably better advanced than the position of Jews in Syria, Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

Lebanon offered a glimpse of what might have been possible in a multicultural state. I lament the decline of that once remarkable country.


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24 Sep 2010, 12:11 am

protest_the_hero wrote:
Zionism is completely based on racial nationalism. The idea of "God's chosen people" is racism disguised in religion. Without the religious claims behind it, zionism would have no moral justification at all. As far as I'm concerned, zionism has no moral justification at all. I blame the media for all these irrational views imposed on us.


"God's chosen people" is a concept which is misunderstood not only by the majority of people in the world but even the majority of jews in the world.

It is not a proclaimation that jews in any sense of the word are somehow above everyone else in the eyes of God. It is to be taken in the sense that the Israelites were chosen to follow a bunch of rules, while everyone else only had to follow a few.

That being said, the Israelites, and modern jews, were not and are not a race. In fact, the Israelites out of Egypt were a heterogeneous group and "aliens" amongst them were required to follow the same laws as natural born Israelites, and it's likely that these aliens were absorbed into the group.

Modern day zionists may feel more justified in their battle by the promise in the Torah, but that takes a back seat to the current conflict between Israel and Palestine today.

Your average young Israeli is secular, likes going to the movies, going to the beach, hanging out with friends, and shopping. They also hate being blown up and bombed.

Your average young Palestinian would like to go to the movies, would like to go to the beach, and would like to hang out with friends, and also hates being blown up and bombed.

You see in this context the past, and who started what, is actually irrelevant. Most Israelis were born in Israel and Israel is all they know. It's their home. Most Palestinians were born in the same region, it's all they know, and it's also their home. Most of them, Israeli and Palestinian are just unwitting pawns stuck on a battle field having to fight a battle neither of them really would rather not have to fight.



Benny123
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24 Sep 2010, 4:35 am

protest_the_hero wrote:
Zionism is completely based on racial nationalism. The idea of "God's chosen people" is racism disguised in religion. Without the religious claims behind it, zionism would have no moral justification at all. As far as I'm concerned, zionism has no moral justification at all. I blame the media for all these irrational views imposed on us.


The Zionist movement was largely irreligious and didn't look for religion to give it a moral justification-the major moral justification it had was the current status of Jews in Europe which soon went downhill culminating in the Holocaust.

The idea of "God's chosen people" is something that all religious people have. They all believe they're following the "correct," or "chosen" religion. There have always been converts to Judaism, too.

And for anyone saying Jewish people can't be anti-Semitic, run a Google search for Dan Burros and Bobby Fischer.



LKL
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24 Sep 2010, 2:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I was with you until you said you support Ahmedinejad.

QFT

Ahmedinejad is a nutjob.



puddingmouse
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24 Sep 2010, 8:06 pm

Benny123 wrote:

And for anyone saying Jewish people can't be anti-Semitic, run a Google search for Dan Burros and Bobby Fischer.


Wasn't Bobby Fischer thought to have psychological problems during his antisemitic period (other than just probably having AS)?

A lot of Jew-hatred seems to be very paranoid. The worst Jew-haters play the victim card as much as Jews are alleged to do. They're like,
'Why won't anyone believe me when I SAY JEWS CONTROL THE MEDIA AND THE WORLD?'

I think the Anti-Zionist movement doesn't do itself any favours by keeping such people in its ranks. I can honestly say I haven't got strongly-felt opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict, although I did study it quite a long time ago. I do theoretically disagree with the State of Israel, but I'm too pragmatic to argue that it should not exist now. I don't like what is done in the name of Zionism, but I won't support the anti-Zionist movement because, honestly, the more bug-eyed element of that movement puts me off. The bug-eyed element is pretty large, from what I saw on campus when I was at uni.



Chronos
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24 Sep 2010, 10:05 pm

Bobby Fischer had paranoid schizophrenia.



Werecrocodile
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25 Sep 2010, 8:05 am

A world filled with hate is empowering.



oliver93
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27 Sep 2010, 5:00 pm

wait wait wait wait... hold up... Zionist's are a race?



ruveyn
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27 Sep 2010, 6:12 pm

oliver93 wrote:
wait wait wait wait... hold up... Zionist's are a race?


Zionism is a religious and political thing. It is not racial.

ruveyn