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b9
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05 Sep 2009, 12:11 pm

skafather84 wrote:
b9 wrote:
how isolated from the nature of life are you?

Not very.

but just a bit huh?

skafather84 wrote:
When I want nature I go either down to the bayous or up to near-coast Mississippi.

when i want nature i just go outside. i live where i want to live and you live where you want to live. i live far from people where wild animals thrive and you live i suppose in a human crush of congested suburbia. (i assume that because you say you have to travel to get to nature).
i could not live where people are all around andhave replaced nature.

skafather84 wrote:
I'm just not some Dr. Dolittle hippie about it.


that is a funny retort. it is imaginative.
it does not describe me, but it is none the less well said (if you coined it).



Sand
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05 Sep 2009, 12:14 pm

b9 wrote:
Sand wrote:
b9 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
b9 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
What a waste of good money that could be spent on humans and educating and feeding humans instead.


erggh.

i have wild animals as my closest friends. i have kookaburras that come and "laugh" on my railing during the day. i hand feed feed them slivers of blade steak and they are so happy and free. i have possums that i pick up and pet and feed at night. they like me to massage them. they are wild and they want my affection. wow that means a lot to me.

there are many more animals i care for too that come to my house every day.

they are all so happy and innocent. they have not a malicious thought in their heads. none of them ever told a lie or pretended anything.

i live at the end of a long street that is mostly undeveloped, and i have bushland all around me. but when i drive to the shops, i see old houses with many trees around them being demolished. they have been bought by developers. the trees are also lopped and then the land is totally bare and they build a block of flats on it.

they make a profit and move on. they do not give a piece of excreta about what lives they killed or displaced. the lives that deserved to live just as much as a human does.

i have animals in my back yard that are innocent and good company, and i can hear in the distance the machinery of humanity eating it's greedy way through the streets ever closer to my house. one day i may have a 10 storey block of units next to me and i will be in their shadow and have to play my music softly and dress appropriately to go into the back yard.

i dislike the proliferance of greedy smart humans who develop the world around me. they are a terror to the animal world. and they are a terror to me.
they will eat me up when they get to next door because i am naive and i can not hold on to my money and security when those people move into my world.

why would i consider a human more valuable than animals ? (humans are animals as well i know)

i do not see any beauty in humanity's complete arrogance and conceited belief that all non human life is subordinate and less "valuable to god".

i bet there are no animals in hell.


You're living a delusion of personification of animals. How lonely and isolated (from humans) are you? :(


how isolated from the nature of life are you?
if you can not see the consciousness in animals then you are blind in a way i am not.
i believe a moth struggling in a spider web is having a hard time and is distressed. i believe it's distress is as significant as my distress if i was caught in a giant web i could not break free from.

i can not stand and watch it and i will always find a way to extricate a moth from a web if i can. they seem to panic so hard and i imagine the terror they feel so i am compelled to free them.

you would not even register the event in your jaded elite mind.

i answered the topic title but i do not wish to be drawn into discussion with you so there you go.


I agree with you pretty much as far as animals go but don't sanctify them. When a moth is freed a spider starves. Life is tough.


i agree about letting the spiders catch their food. most of the moths and insects i free are from uninhabited old webs.

if i have a little spider in the web then i may hurry out of the room and let nature take it's course because i also want the spiders to get their food. i just do not want to see it.

i am talking about flittering little insects that are stuck in old webs in the laundry.

one day when i was in the laundry, i noticed a spider web mess that had fallen down on a bench, and it contained a "dead" dragon fly. i thought " what a serious way to die" when i saw it.

4 days later, i was in the laundry again, and i looked at the spider web ball of mess and i went to pick it up to put it in the garbage.
i noticed the dragon fly moved as i picked up the web ball.

it was alive still and it had been locked tight in the web on it's back for 4 days and i felt very sorry for whatever was going through that tiny little brain.

so i went and found 2 needles and i carefully unwound the web from the dragon fly. after about 30 minutes, i had it free of all web without damaging it.
it was almost dead and i got my water pistol and squeezed one droplet of water on to the bench next to where it lay, and i pushed it toward the drop of water and it sucked the water up because the droplet disappeared.

then it became more animated and i got it onto a paper towel and i took it out of the laundry and laid the towel on my back verandah.
after about 5 minutes, it regained its strength and flew off into the blue sky. it must have been elated.

i was so happy about that, and i watched it fly away. but after 2 seconds, a blasted kurrawong (an australian bird) intercepted the dragon flies trajectory and caught it and it disappeared.

what a microcosmic drama that could not excite even one neuron of a macroscopic thinker.


My mind works the same way. I had a praying mantis for a pet for a while. It was fascinating since it is the only insect I know that could turn its head to watch me. I rescue bees and hornets trapped in buses by placing a small plastic bag over them while they are on a window and then carrying them off to freedom at my stop. I take care of a flock of ducks over the winter here in Helsinki and feed them each evening. I have had seagulls, hedgehogs, a muskrat, a rabbit, rats, mice, and cats and dogs as companions and now have a sparrow I raised from a baby. I prefer them to people.



skafather84
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05 Sep 2009, 12:25 pm

b9 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
b9 wrote:
how isolated from the nature of life are you?

Not very.

but just a bit huh?

skafather84 wrote:
When I want nature I go either down to the bayous or up to near-coast Mississippi.

when i want nature i just go outside. i live where i want to live and you live where you want to live. i live far from people where wild animals thrive and you live i suppose in a human crush of congested suburbia. (i assume that because you say you have to travel to get to nature).
i could not live where people are all around andhave replaced nature.

skafather84 wrote:
I'm just not some Dr. Dolittle hippie about it.


that is a funny retort. it is imaginative.
it does not describe me, but it is none the less well said (if you coined it).


You're not very familiar with my region. I have plenty wildlife around. Nutria, snapping turtles, alligators, toads, mosquitos, roaches, squirrels, birds (more than just pigeons...also cardinals, blue jays, ducks and some migratory fly-overs), feral cats.

And to be honest, it drove me nuts when I was in Los Angeles and was legitimately cut off from animals. However, I don't live in commune with them. I live parallel to them and enjoy their presence as character to the environment (except roaches and mosquitoes...both of which I can do without).

I have to drive to get to wooded areas/undeveloped areas...but I'm certainly not locked away from wildlife.


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MissConstrue
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05 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm

skafather84 wrote:
b9 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
What a waste of good money that could be spent on humans and educating and feeding humans instead.


erggh.

i have wild animals as my closest friends. i have kookaburras that come and "laugh" on my railing during the day. i hand feed feed them slivers of blade steak and they are so happy and free. i have possums that i pick up and pet and feed at night. they like me to massage them. they are wild and they want my affection. wow that means a lot to me.

there are many more animals i care for too that come to my house every day.

they are all so happy and innocent. they have not a malicious thought in their heads. none of them ever told a lie or pretended anything.

i live at the end of a long street that is mostly undeveloped, and i have bushland all around me. but when i drive to the shops, i see old houses with many trees around them being demolished. they have been bought by developers. the trees are also lopped and then the land is totally bare and they build a block of flats on it.

they make a profit and move on. they do not give a piece of excreta about what lives they killed or displaced. the lives that deserved to live just as much as a human does.

i have animals in my back yard that are innocent and good company, and i can hear in the distance the machinery of humanity eating it's greedy way through the streets ever closer to my house. one day i may have a 10 storey block of units next to me and i will be in their shadow and have to play my music softly and dress appropriately to go into the back yard.

i dislike the proliferance of greedy smart humans who develop the world around me. they are a terror to the animal world. and they are a terror to me.
they will eat me up when they get to next door because i am naive and i can not hold on to my money and security when those people move into my world.

why would i consider a human more valuable than animals ? (humans are animals as well i know)

i do not see any beauty in humanity's complete arrogance and conceited belief that all non human life is subordinate and less "valuable to god".

i bet there are no animals in hell.


You're living a delusion of personification of animals. How lonely and isolated (from humans) are you? :(


Delusional is only a word now that defines a character in humans that another seems to find fault in.

I too feel happy and upbeat when I get up every morning to feed birds, squirrels, and cats. Mind you, I've never been all that happy in the material department and although I do not agree that all humans are greedy or bad, it has never been easy for me to connect to one. Maybe I'm also just as delusional whatever that means.

And before you accuse me of liking animals more than people, I'll have you know, I worked and volunteered in many places to benefit humans such as women's shelters, elderly homes, and DayCare. It also gave me a thrill to see people who could get what they needed out of these systems. My aunt is currently working over in Africa to help and provide children who's parents have died of AIDS.

I guess the question I'd have to ask is what makes one species more superior to another? You might define humans as more intellengent than any other creature in the animal kingdom but our intellengence is also what has destroyed the fruit of our abundance. That is to say, we've destroyed many natural resources beneficial to life. So I cannot see how one's morality is less superior to another's morality if we're talking about charity work and organizations. This discussion goes way beyond right to animals and you'll be happy to know there still really isn't a lot of rights to animals when it comes to cruelty and mistreatment as there are with people living in most regions of the west. We have many if not more contributors such as beaurocracy, corruption, greed, poverty, free labor, "moral" obligations, intolerance, discrimination, social hiearchy, rigid belief systems, fraud....etc...etc...etc. And the sad fact is, most of the money that goes into these charity organizations are deceitful. Most people don't know how much is going into the pockets of the adminstrators and how much less is actually being spent for a wished a cause.


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Last edited by MissConstrue on 05 Sep 2009, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

number5
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05 Sep 2009, 1:33 pm

If people wish to spend their money and efforts on loving and caring for animals, well that's their choice and I see no harm. What I do take issue with is people pretending to be caring for their animals when all they're actually doing is feeding thier own bizarre desires. For example, I know a lady who regularly dresses up her dog in all sorts of rediculus outfits, shoes and all, and then takes it for a "walk" in a stroller. Others feed their animals all sorts of expensive delicacies without actual regard for the safety of the animal. The pet industry has gotten a bit out of hand lately and it is not all to the benefit of the animals.



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05 Sep 2009, 6:00 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
I guess the question I'd have to ask is what makes one species more superior to another?



Guns, nuclear arms, and political manipulations. Show me a dolphin or cat that could overthrow the Haitian government in the span of a day or two.


More seriously: you watch out for your own first and foremost.


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skafather84
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05 Sep 2009, 6:00 pm

also: http://www.physorg.com/news171216895.html


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Arcadian
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05 Sep 2009, 6:16 pm

skafather84 wrote:

this article refers to possible transformations, and disregarding the moral implications of such manipulations, it still does not apply to today's animals, and therefor is irrelevant



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05 Sep 2009, 7:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:
More seriously: you watch out for your own first and foremost.
Where is ruveyn with a 'human racist' retort when you need him? :lol:



greenblue
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07 Sep 2009, 12:11 am

MissConstrue wrote:
Delusional is only a word now that defines a character in humans that another seems to find fault in.

Quite true.

Quote:
And before you accuse me of liking animals more than people, I'll have you know, I worked and volunteered in many places to benefit humans such as women's shelters, elderly homes, and DayCare. It also gave me a thrill to see people who could get what they needed out of these systems. My aunt is currently working over in Africa to help and provide children who's parents have died of AIDS.

well, the issue would be about moderation, I suppose. It seems some people get extreme on their views regarding any idealism, such as activism, in this case animals, and given that problem I tend to distrust activists, any kind of activist for that matter.

I hate the idea of giving more priority to an animal over a human in a danger situation, if a human being is in danger of being injured or killed by an animal I would think of shooting the animal to be not a bad option, or the issue of saving a life, I would put more priority to the human over an animal, dispite what animal-lovers may think. Heck! If I had a child and that child is injured by a dog, I'd likely kill the dog as well as the owner ;)

Quote:
I guess the question I'd have to ask is what makes one species more superior to another?

Sex.


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07 Sep 2009, 6:43 am

skafather84 wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
I guess the question I'd have to ask is what makes one species more superior to another?



Guns, nuclear arms, and political manipulations. Show me a dolphin or cat that could overthrow the Haitian government in the span of a day or two.


More seriously: you watch out for your own first and foremost.


Superior in your case as in creating weapons and mutiny.

As for mutiny, I wonder if you've ever watched animal kingdom. For instance, wolves also compete in social hiearchy and have been known to overthrow the alpha wolf.


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07 Sep 2009, 6:49 am

skafather84 wrote:


*yawn*

Still doesn't answere my question and btw, I do eat meat in case you're wondering if I'm into PETA.

Most carnivores are now almost extinct thanks to us. But really doesn't matter to most of us when you think about it since we assume we're more superior as if we're in full control with the way the natural environment has helped keep a certain control over our habitat.

The rainforest for instance....


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07 Sep 2009, 6:51 am

claire333 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
More seriously: you watch out for your own first and foremost.
Where is ruveyn with a 'human racist' retort when you need him? :lol:


Don't hold your breath. I agee. One looks out for one's self and one's own first and foremost.

ruveyn



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07 Sep 2009, 7:11 am

greenblue wrote:


Quote:
I hate the idea of giving more priority to an animal over a human in a danger situation, if a human being is in danger of being injured or killed by an animal I would think of shooting the animal to be not a bad option, or the issue of saving a life, I would put more priority to the human over an animal, dispite what animal-lovers may think. Heck! If I had a child and that child is injured by a dog, I'd likely kill the dog as well as the owner ;)


Agreed.

However, there have been many cases in which it has been completely the opposite. Slaughtering and torturing animals has been used as a recreational sport for man without the intention of eating them.

Take for instance the buffalo that white man killed for only their tongue and hide. Not to mention with the ultimate purpose to wipe out the Natives from their own homeland.

Quote:
Sex.


Well I don't see how where the inferiority complex in this is. It is one vital thing to most species in order to reproduce....unless I'm missing something here... :?


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claire-333
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07 Sep 2009, 7:46 am

ruveyn wrote:
claire333 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
More seriously: you watch out for your own first and foremost.
Where is ruveyn with a 'human racist' retort when you need him? :lol:


Don't hold your breath. I agee. One looks out for one's self and one's own first and foremost.

ruveyn
I have trouble disagreeing with that point myself and I did not really expect you to either. Skafather's comment just made me think of your words, which I still find to be very funny.