Why democracy is a bad system for aspergers

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Sand
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12 Sep 2009, 12:45 am

I doubt Plotinus is a conscious troll. He seems to me to have a peculiarly naive trust in the beneficent ability of someone who claims absolute wisdom, whatever that might be. The logic behind his belief is not all that different from that of any ideal government where the best suited should rule. The inherent problem, of course, is discovering who is best suited. In his version a claimant to wisdom from what seems to me to be theological grounds is valid. The normal system in a republic is that people are permitted by elections to practically demonstrate their ability to rule. When they fail, as they frequently do, the system is supposed to be designed to replace them with another candidate up for trial. This is a pragmatic effort to determine who is competent in the job. And it is, of course, littered with failures. In an absolute system without elections idiocy is very frequently the characteristic of the rulers but there is no opportunity to kick them out. Plotinus is obviously outrageously naive but that is nothing that can be argued out of.



Last edited by Sand on 12 Sep 2009, 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

gina-ghettoprincess
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12 Sep 2009, 4:01 am

Plotinus wrote:
Princess,
Aristocrats, in the platonic sense, have reached nirvana.

And understanding irony, thats a problem for a lot of people.


But you know, i am extremely wise.
There is plato and me, the two greatest philosophers.


a⋅ris⋅to⋅crat  /əˈrɪstəˌkræt, ˈærəstə-/ –noun 1. a member of an aristocracy, esp. a noble.
2. a person who has the tastes, manners, etc., characteristic of members of an aristocracy.
3. an advocate of an aristocratic form of government.
4. anything regarded as the best, most elegant, or most stylish of its kind: the aristocrat of California wines.


You say that people have problems understanding irony, but you still haven't explained exactly what you have said that was intended as irony.


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Janissy
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12 Sep 2009, 7:33 am

NeantHumain wrote:
The saying is don't feed the trolls!, but I'll take the bate as this is Politics, Philosophy, and Religion. (Or perhaps his sense of irony just doesn't cross the language barrier very well.)

In Western countries like the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands, we are raised early to believe in democracy. Well, we have more or less liberal democracies (a system of representational popular rule with constitutional limitations protecting individual rights) or social democracies (with a greater emphasis on societal guarantees for a standard of living). People like these systems because they've proven themselves to be comfortable and relatively free.

So the impulse to lord it over all the rest is anti-democratic and perceived as dangerous. This is why this thread has been more a discussion of Plotinus than of the idea he has proposed. The response is derision: mockery, ostracism. He holds an idea that offends the status quo here. That's not to say the visceral negative reactions aren't justifiable; clearly, they are, but I'd prefer to show why.

Western democracies have shown a trend towards greater inclusion and acceptance of minorities. Society still needs to be educated on the full range of autism spectrum conditions from profoundly disabling cases of autism to less visibly impairing cases of Asperger's syndrome. Greater understanding is being had of developmental differences, psychiatric disorders, and neurological conditions. We can make this progress because in a democracy like in the U.S. people can voice their concerns and pool resources for issues of social justice, and we have a legal system that respects certain fundamental rights for all people (again, with the usual caveat that the system isn't perfect). This only indicates a continuing need for education, understanding, and reform. Of course, we still have an elite class rather than societal equality, but a democratic system, especially as progressively more democratic reforms are made, will narrow that gap (some politicians seem to be bent on cementing in an American oligarchy).

An aristocracy makes no reform possible for the common wheal as their interest only goes so far as it advantages the nobility (you can see a continuum here between highly egalitarian, anarchic democracy and a rigidly hierarchical aristocracy on the other). Plotinus would want those "best fit rule" to mean the intelligent and the autistic (nominally us). So by circumstance of birth, we'd be granted much greater privilege, enforced by law. If we were born under another set of circumstances, Plotinus would have us treated as serfs. Additionally, such a system is highly disturbing to someone with a sense of empathy.


I absolutely agree. This is the core reason why I am pro-democracy despite the fact that sometimes the elected officials turn out to be terrible leaders.



Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2009, 7:00 pm

Plotinus wrote:
But you know, i am extremely wise.
There is plato and me, the two greatest philosophers.

Um.... no. You don't even seem to grasp the long understood ideas of Machiavelli, and you expect us to consider you wise? Nonsense! Also, I doubt that you are a great philosopher, unless there is some great insight that you have and are hiding from everyone else.



MissConstrue
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13 Sep 2009, 7:17 pm

This thread reminds me an awful lot of that one about aspie elitism.

Anyway carry on....


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16 Sep 2009, 7:32 pm

Obviously, Democracy has never been good for any manner of minorities. Aspies included.

Therefore,

Image



Henriksson
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17 Sep 2009, 4:36 am

NEWater wrote:
Obviously, Democracy has never been good for any manner of minorities. Aspies included.

Therefore,

Image

Oh noes, Red X'd! Are you throwing a vote or something? :?


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17 Sep 2009, 9:55 am

Ill take your proposal straightforward.

Lets ban together all the aspies and the like.
Stock power to the ceiling to enforce ones will
Than scare , negotiate or kill everyone in power so that their regime will pass on to us.
Sounds easy?

Well up to you... it has been done countless times before on the smaller scale.



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17 Sep 2009, 9:58 am

Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


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Sand
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17 Sep 2009, 10:07 am

Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


And anybody interested in going to heaven should gather at the mountain top at Olympus on November 17 2012 and wear a space suit since the transition requires passage through regions of vacuum. Announcements will be made shortly as to the price of transport tickets and where and how they can be purchased. Special accommodations will be made for pets weighing under 300 kilos.

Anybody interested in purchasing a space suit will be accommodated when manufacturing facilities can be located.



ruveyn
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17 Sep 2009, 10:12 am

Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


Yeah. Like a boot in the face and a kick in the ribs.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 17 Sep 2009, 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anubis
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17 Sep 2009, 10:13 am

Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


And anybody interested in going to heaven should gather at the mountain top at Olympus on November 17 2012 and wear a space suit since the transition requires passage through regions of vacuum. Announcements will be made shortly as to the price of transport tickets and where and how they can be purchased. Special accommodations will be made for pets weighing under 300 kilos.

Anybody interested in purchasing a space suit will be accommodated when manufacturing facilities can be located.


It is inevitable, churl. Everything changes over time. Our ideas of how the world should be run will also change, through both peaceful reform and violent evolution.


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Sand
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17 Sep 2009, 10:18 am

Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


And anybody interested in going to heaven should gather at the mountain top at Olympus on November 17 2012 and wear a space suit since the transition requires passage through regions of vacuum. Announcements will be made shortly as to the price of transport tickets and where and how they can be purchased. Special accommodations will be made for pets weighing under 300 kilos.

Anybody interested in purchasing a space suit will be accommodated when manufacturing facilities can be located.


It is inevitable, churl. Everything changes over time. Our ideas of how the world should be run will also change, through both peaceful reform and violent evolution.


Quoted, no doubt, from a philosophical dinosaur.



Anubis
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17 Sep 2009, 10:21 am

Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


And anybody interested in going to heaven should gather at the mountain top at Olympus on November 17 2012 and wear a space suit since the transition requires passage through regions of vacuum. Announcements will be made shortly as to the price of transport tickets and where and how they can be purchased. Special accommodations will be made for pets weighing under 300 kilos.

Anybody interested in purchasing a space suit will be accommodated when manufacturing facilities can be located.


It is inevitable, churl. Everything changes over time. Our ideas of how the world should be run will also change, through both peaceful reform and violent evolution.


Quoted, no doubt, from a philosophical dinosaur.


Dinosaurs were magnificent creatures, no? They came up with beautiful philosophy. However, I am not a dinosaur.


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Sand
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17 Sep 2009, 10:31 am

Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Democracy will be replaced by a better way of making decisions.


And anybody interested in going to heaven should gather at the mountain top at Olympus on November 17 2012 and wear a space suit since the transition requires passage through regions of vacuum. Announcements will be made shortly as to the price of transport tickets and where and how they can be purchased. Special accommodations will be made for pets weighing under 300 kilos.

Anybody interested in purchasing a space suit will be accommodated when manufacturing facilities can be located.


It is inevitable, churl. Everything changes over time. Our ideas of how the world should be run will also change, through both peaceful reform and violent evolution.


Quoted, no doubt, from a philosophical dinosaur.


Dinosaurs were magnificent creatures, no? They came up with beautiful philosophy. However, I am not a dinosaur.


Peculiarly, that's exactly what the dinosaurs thought.



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16 Jun 2013, 6:55 pm

If you're a musician of any decent talent, you find out that playing in a group, no matter what size that group is, is a dictatorship, albeit a very benevolent dictatorship. Musicians are taught from the first day they begin performing with a group, to subjugate themselves to the guy or gal that stands in front of them, namely the conductor.