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Your pastor is a whore

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TheOddGoat
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08 Nov 2009, 7:09 pm

leejosepho wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
We don't have free will if god is omniscient and omnipotent.

And the world is broken because it is not as efficient as it could be.

Everything is stupidly made if it is a creation, terribly poorly conceived and of little use compared to what it could be ...


So then, you believe it is by those kinds of "standards" He should be judged? And then, who or what will take over if/after He has been condemned and eliminated?


Nothing, why would anything need to be in charge?

Entropy will continue and humanity will be choked out by the cold whether or not there is a demiurge.



leejosepho
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08 Nov 2009, 7:26 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
Nothing, why would anything need to be in charge?


So we could resolve this matter we have been discussing:

TheOddGoat wrote:
God decides what sin is and is therefore a corrupt judge.


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TheOddGoat
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08 Nov 2009, 8:56 pm

leejosepho wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
Nothing, why would anything need to be in charge?


So we could resolve this matter we have been discussing:

TheOddGoat wrote:
God decides what sin is and is therefore a corrupt judge.


Oh right, you only mean sin?

Everything relating to morality would be just the way it always has been, just there would be no dictatorial rules of sin.

Taking only christianity, the bible only has 613 commandments whereas in life people follow hundreds of thousands of moral rules that they may not even realise are there.

Morals are "social codes of conduct" - you don't need morals if you're the only person around. If there are people, there is morality. If there are no people there is no morality.


If there was a supreme being who created everything and was all powerful(identical to the abrahamic god.) and he commanded that you rape your mother while putting her arms through a meat grinder and it was made clear in the bible in bold text with a note that said this is definitely an imperative and not metaphorical, would you do it?

Or would it be against your morals, that you have derived from society (even if we may not all exactly be spot on on WP hehe...)?



leejosepho
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08 Nov 2009, 9:46 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
Oh right, you only mean sin?


No, the question is about God.


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Jono
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10 Nov 2009, 12:06 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
We live in a universe that is perfectly arranged for the creation of black holes, and the star at the centre of our particular solar system is going to run out of energy and so too will the Earth, resulting in absolut destruction of life through either running out of energy or crushed by the black hole left by the collapse of the sun. We will likely be past the event horizon of it to begin with :-/.


The sun will never become a black hole. It's not massive enough. The final collapsed state of the sun will actually be a white dwarf star. Nonetheless, all life on Earth will still get wiped out when the sun swells up to become a red giant. You also left out the eventual heat death of the universe. Hypothetically, even if we were to escape Earth before the sun becomes a red giant, eventually the universe will end and we can never survive that.



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10 Nov 2009, 10:21 pm

WhiskeyInTheJar wrote:
Thank heavens the christians don't kill everyone who disagrees with them, as Allah's butchers do.


Chatted with any abortion providers lately?


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skafather84
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11 Nov 2009, 3:27 pm

WhiskeyInTheJar wrote:
Thank heavens the christians don't kill everyone who disagrees with them, as Allah's butchers do.


Bring enough poverty back to the Christians and they will....and are you just talking about in the first world? There's a metric ton of Christians in the third world in Africa who still burn "witches" to this day.


I know you're just talking out of ignorance...but just shut up until you know better...it may take a few years but I promise you, I'll enjoy the silence.


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TheOddGoat
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11 Nov 2009, 3:51 pm

leejosepho wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
Oh right, you only mean sin?


No, the question is about God.


Then, I'll say again, we don't need anyone in charge.



leejosepho
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11 Nov 2009, 4:03 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
God decides what sin is and is therefore a corrupt judge.


TheOddGoat wrote:
... we don't need anyone in charge.


So then, who would decide the matter of sin?


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TallyMan
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11 Nov 2009, 4:14 pm

leejosepho wrote:
So then, who would decide the matter of sin?


What actually is sin? I mean that in all seriousness.

If you mean sin is certain aspects of moral behaviour such as not mugging little old ladies or murdering them for their purse then that should be legislated by laws and judges. The majority of people will not act in such a way in the first place due to the feeling of empathy.

If you mean sin is working on a Sunday or a couple of homosexuals living together then I say to hell with the notion of sin - it is just a form of social control.

In either case I see no role for a God.


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Awesomelyglorious
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11 Nov 2009, 4:24 pm

leejosepho wrote:
So then, who would decide the matter of sin?

Do we need to have a being decide that rape is wrong, or is rape just wrong? I think most people and most intuitions side with the idea that there are a class of things that are wrong, and that morality exists necessarily. I think you are presupposing divine command theory, and this is leading to communication issues.



TheOddGoat
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11 Nov 2009, 4:56 pm

leejosepho wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
God decides what sin is and is therefore a corrupt judge.


TheOddGoat wrote:
... we don't need anyone in charge.


So then, who would decide the matter of sin?


Noone, there would be no such thing as sin once the person who decides what sin is is gone.

There would, however, be morality.

As long as you have more than one person living in the same place, there will be morality. This morality will be roughly similar everywhere but will have differences from place to place. The differences will normally be the less critical things... most moralities will have murder as a crime because most people don't want to be murdered etc.

There was morality before god.



leejosepho
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11 Nov 2009, 5:03 pm

The core question here is not about sin or who decides it. A statement had been made that "God decides what is sin and is therefore corrupt" ... and I am still waiting for some kind of reasonable logic behind such a statement ... but of course, there is none.

Absolute power might for whatever reason corrupt absolutely among humans, but that does not mean or prove the same to be true of God.


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TheOddGoat
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13 Nov 2009, 10:22 am

leejosepho wrote:
The core question here is not about sin or who decides it. A statement had been made that "God decides what is sin and is therefore corrupt" ... and I am still waiting for some kind of reasonable logic behind such a statement ... but of course, there is none.

Absolute power might for whatever reason corrupt absolutely among humans, but that does not mean or prove the same to be true of God.


I didn't say anything about absolute power...

God chooses what is wrong.

God chooses the punishment for what is wrong.

God enacts the punishment for what is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court

Loki's wager type stuff gets really boring really fast.



leejosepho
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13 Nov 2009, 5:34 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
God chooses what is wrong.

God chooses the punishment for what is wrong.


No longer. Those things were established long ago, and they have not been changed since.

TheOddGoat wrote:
God enacts the punishment for what is wrong.


Correct.


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Vyn
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13 Nov 2009, 5:43 pm

leejosepho wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
God chooses what is wrong.

God chooses the punishment for what is wrong.


No longer. Those things were established long ago, and they have not been changed since.

TheOddGoat wrote:
God enacts the punishment for what is wrong.


Correct.


Um... I'm not sure what you mean by your first sentence. If you're saying they were established before God, then you're being heretical to pretty much every single religion ever. If you're saying God established really long ago, then your sentence doesn't make sense because God DID choose what is wrong and God DOES choose the punishment.


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