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kaworuchan42
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05 Dec 2009, 11:18 pm

It is not corrupt politicians who want it take it way. Nor it is corrupt corporations who want to take it away.

It is not the fault of any single political policy put into play by anybody in power.

It is the belief that the people are powerless. It is the lack of a "can do" attitude. It is the endless downward spiral of hopelessness that people are spiraling downwards into as the state of the world seems to be getting worse with each passing day.

People in the US have the power to take the power back. The only things hindering them is the belief that everything is completely out of their hands, the belief that it is not their responsibility to, and the belief that we're all screwed so why bother - which are all completely false beliefs.

Too bad that way too many of them would rather watch television and whine about their problems as if that was going to help anything.

Inactivity of the citizenship - that's what people should really be afraid of.

Think about THAT little nugget of amateur political commentary for a few moments.



leejosepho
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05 Dec 2009, 11:31 pm

kaworuchan42 wrote:
It is not ...

It is not ...

It is the belief that the people are powerless.


I think not. Mustering the power of the people would be the impossibility. And then, of course, there is the deceptive distraction of the ballot box ... and the "holidays" are just ahead at the moment ... and ... and ...


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zer0netgain
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06 Dec 2009, 9:16 pm

Taxes.

It's the power of a state to take what is yours and give it to someone else. While a necessary evil of society, taxation is the easiest way to take the wealth and power of the people and centralize it into the state.



leejosepho
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06 Dec 2009, 9:46 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Taxes.

It's the power of a state to take what is yours and give it to someone else ...


... and that can only be done at the point of a gun, and the citizenry is no longer able to out-gun the state.


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Cyanide
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06 Dec 2009, 10:00 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Taxes.

It's the power of a state to take what is yours and give it to someone else. While a necessary evil of society, taxation is the easiest way to take the wealth and power of the people and centralize it into the state.

Even easier is taking it with inflation by printing money, because most people are ignorant as to how money and central banking work.



MartyMoose
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06 Dec 2009, 10:16 pm

Oh the number of Thomas Jefferson quotes that come to mind....



Sand
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06 Dec 2009, 11:25 pm

If the people are not aware enough and intelligent enough to control their government through the power of elections then they will be screwed by any group or individual who is powerful enough and smart enough to take advantage of general stupidity and misinformation. Putting powerful armaments in the hands of brutal unaware idiots does not guarantee general good will and freedom and a proper civil culture.



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06 Dec 2009, 11:38 pm

MartyMoose wrote:
Oh the number of Thomas Jefferson quotes that come to mind....

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.



leejosepho
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07 Dec 2009, 12:00 am

Sand wrote:
If the people are not aware enough and intelligent enough to control their government through the power of elections ...


It is a delusion to believe "the power of elections" is even real.

Sand wrote:
Putting powerful armaments in the hands of [brutes] does not guarantee general good will and freedom and a proper civil culture.


The people did not put those armaments in the hands of said government ... and yes, I just turned your statement around!

MartyMoose wrote:
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.


Knowledge is not sufficiently powerful to plug the ends of the barrels of guns keeping everyone in line!


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Sand
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07 Dec 2009, 12:19 am

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
If the people are not aware enough and intelligent enough to control their government through the power of elections ...


It is a delusion to believe "the power of elections" is even real.

Sand wrote:
Putting powerful armaments in the hands of [brutes] does not guarantee general good will and freedom and a proper civil culture.


The people did not put those armaments in the hands of said government ... and yes, I just turned your statement around!

MartyMoose wrote:
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.


Knowledge is not sufficiently powerful to plug the ends of the barrels of guns keeping everyone in line!


What you are saying is that all elections are frauds and democracy is and always was impossible. If knowledge is so impotent why is so much effort made to suppress it? You are basically confessing to the impossibility of any government to be fairly and properly conducted. I may not be optimistic but I am not a total defeatist.



leejosepho
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07 Dec 2009, 7:09 am

Sand wrote:
If knowledge is so impotent why is so much effort made to suppress it?


Do you have any examples?


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Sand
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07 Dec 2009, 7:17 am

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
If knowledge is so impotent why is so much effort made to suppress it?


Do you have any examples?


Since you are an American living in the USA during the G.W.Bush regime I do not find that a particularly bright question.



0_equals_true
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07 Dec 2009, 7:50 am

Oh it is so terrible here, I'm really suffering :roll: it is only now that we have a supreme court and hopeful we will get an elected second chamber, but of course progress is bad.

People are happy to use the EU when it suits them, for instance European court of human rights.

If anything countries like France and Germany are learning that they can't have it have it all their own way. But then again the economic recoveries in those countries are better than the UK, so you can't exactly say it sucks to be them.

One of the cultural problems in the UK is that we assume we can't roll with the punches. We assume we are weak and therefore if we join Europe it will be lights out. That is our problem not theirs. We would be the same as them in their position, which is how the political field works.

What is really the threat to the UK, is the growing sense of victim hood, helplessness and weakness, and propensity to moan about everything and anything without taking any responsibility for it. This is a cultural meme.



0_equals_true
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07 Dec 2009, 8:28 am

As for referenda, they can be problematic look what happened in Switzerland. They provoke knee jerk emotional responses without really thinking things through.

If you like we can abolish MPs, political parties and elections and just have a website where people suggest ideas for referendums and then slowly descend into chaos “Never-end-um”



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07 Dec 2009, 2:33 pm

Cyanide wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Taxes.

It's the power of a state to take what is yours and give it to someone else. While a necessary evil of society, taxation is the easiest way to take the wealth and power of the people and centralize it into the state.

Even easier is taking it with inflation by printing money, because most people are ignorant as to how money and central banking work.


Fraud is more subtle and deadly than force. Fraud can be a stealth thing. Force is overt.

ruveyn



leejosepho
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07 Dec 2009, 5:46 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
As for referenda, they can be problematic look what happened in Switzerland. They provoke knee jerk emotional responses without really thinking things through.

If you like we can abolish MPs, political parties and elections and just have a website where people suggest ideas for referendums and then slowly descend into chaos “Never-end-um”


... and that would be called "democracy", aka "mob rule"!


Sand wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
If knowledge is so impotent why is so much effort made to suppress it?


Do you have any examples?


Since you are an American living in the USA during the G.W.Bush regime I do not find that a particularly bright question.


I am not aware of anything significant being supressed here. Now that the deception has been established and the delusion is running strong, most everything seems to be hidden in plain sight. But, maybe you know more than I.


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