If God created the universe, then who created God?

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Vince
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14 Jan 2010, 12:29 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
He got created from the interaction of the noodly appendage with some timey-wimey stuff :P

And then it went all wibbly wobbly?


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DemonAbyss10
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14 Jan 2010, 12:52 pm

Vince wrote:
DemonAbyss10 wrote:
He got created from the interaction of the noodly appendage with some timey-wimey stuff :P

And then it went all wibbly wobbly?


of course.


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Vince
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14 Jan 2010, 12:54 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
Vince wrote:
DemonAbyss10 wrote:
He got created from the interaction of the noodly appendage with some timey-wimey stuff :P

And then it went all wibbly wobbly?

of course.

Typical.


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Sand
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14 Jan 2010, 8:26 pm

Vince wrote:
DemonAbyss10 wrote:
Vince wrote:
DemonAbyss10 wrote:
He got created from the interaction of the noodly appendage with some timey-wimey stuff :P

And then it went all wibbly wobbly?

of course.

Typical.


According to the latest cosmic observations the universe is still expanding at a huge rate so God is still creating it and it is obviously such a huge problem He has little attention left to bother with the Earth which is so insignificant in this huge enterprise that whatever has gone wrong is not worth bothering about. It is a mere minor glitch in all that goodness of exploding suns and black holes and blasting energies that so delights a deity.



dddhgg
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14 Jan 2010, 8:53 pm

Why is an uncaused existence so unreasonable?


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Sand
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14 Jan 2010, 9:57 pm

dddhgg wrote:
Why is an uncaused existence so unreasonable?


There is no arguing with that mindset.



dddhgg
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14 Jan 2010, 10:02 pm

Sand wrote:
dddhgg wrote:
Why is an uncaused existence so unreasonable?


There is no arguing with that mindset.


Care to elaborate? God itself possesses an uncaused existence, according to most. Why does the addition of a temporal aspect (which the universe, but not God, is supposed to have) necessitate causation?


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Sand
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14 Jan 2010, 11:18 pm

dddhgg wrote:
Sand wrote:
dddhgg wrote:
Why is an uncaused existence so unreasonable?


There is no arguing with that mindset.


Care to elaborate? God itself possesses an uncaused existence, according to most. Why does the addition of a temporal aspect (which the universe, but not God, is supposed to have) necessitate causation?


All observation indicates a dynamic universe of cause and effect. To propose that this does not exist in a theoretical and unobserved phenomena is something acceptable to a mind that reaches for extreme explanation. If that kind of reach is acceptable then that mind is unpersuadable that observed phenomena indicate a universal pattern. I prefer to accept that observed phenomena indicate a universal pattern but that is a personal choice.



zer0netgain
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15 Jan 2010, 8:43 am

Sand wrote:
All observation indicates a dynamic universe of cause and effect.


Which makes sense to someone TRAPPED within such a universe.



Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 9:54 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
All observation indicates a dynamic universe of cause and effect.


Which makes sense to someone TRAPPED within such a universe.


When you have successfully departed this universe, please send back a note on your method of escape and what it's like over there.



zer0netgain
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15 Jan 2010, 10:32 am

Sand wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
All observation indicates a dynamic universe of cause and effect.


Which makes sense to someone TRAPPED within such a universe.


When you have successfully departed this universe, please send back a note on your method of escape and what it's like over there.


For you, of course.

You do realize I'm going to send it C.O.D.

:wink:



Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 10:55 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
All observation indicates a dynamic universe of cause and effect.


Which makes sense to someone TRAPPED within such a universe.


When you have successfully departed this universe, please send back a note on your method of escape and what it's like over there.


For you, of course.

You do realize I'm going to send it C.O.D.

:wink:


I'm a bit strapped at the moment but if that message arrives I'll dig up the postage no question.



sartresue
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15 Jan 2010, 11:32 am

Sand wrote:

According to the latest cosmic observations the universe is still expanding at a huge rate so God is still creating it and it is obviously such a huge problem He has little attention left to bother with the Earth which is so insignificant in this huge enterprise that whatever has gone wrong is not worth bothering about. It is a mere minor glitch in all that goodness of exploding suns and black holes and blasting energies that so delights a deity.


Cosmic/Comic origins topic

I have never understood the reason why Creationists need to justify their faith in a god creating the universe. I accept those like Iamnotaparakeet have faith in their ideas about the First cause, and to me, and to me, at least, faith needs no justification. It cannot be proven nor can it be justified through physical evidence.

Like many others here, overwhelmingly atheist/nontheist, I prefer harder evidence of a cause. Humans need the reassurance of a rational cause (I did not say real), and what I mean by rational, logically presented and satisfies the need for understanding.

Causes for any event are not so straightforward. For going on forty three years I have been studying the concept of genocides (mostly the Holocaust) and there are many theories and ideas, some overlapping, some controversial, and all must demonstrate soundness/rationality for these to be acceptable to scholars. And remember, their are still many revisionaries who deny it ever occurred. (I am waiting for someone to state that there is no cause to the origin of the universe because it never happened. There IS NO universe. It is all an illusion.) The only time there are problems is when the situation becomes political, and the lack of cause/event is used against those who believe it.

All cultures have their universe creation stories. It is a group thing and gives them a common beginning. Same with the comic origins posts. :P What makes western science's unique is that there must be some sort of rational evidence to back up the theories, and the group identity thing is not an issue.


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16 Jan 2010, 4:51 pm

From what I understand, He was always here.


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Vince
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16 Jan 2010, 5:24 pm

PunkyKat wrote:
From what I understand, He was always here.

Here, meaning in the Universe? If so, he couldn't have created it. If not, then where was He? And what created that?


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16 Jan 2010, 5:38 pm

Vince wrote:
PunkyKat wrote:
From what I understand, He was always here.

Here, meaning in the Universe? If so, he couldn't have created it. If not, then where was He? And what created that?


That He was here before the universe was created. Supposedly we can't understand it because our mortal minds but we will when we go to heaven. It's what us Christian folks call "faith".


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