New Arizona Law called "fundamentally racist."
13 May 2010, 12:38 am
We speak English in America. Our fore fathers who came here LEGALLY LEARNED English. These people are so ignorant they refuse to learn it. They disrespect our law's, take money and jobs out of our pockets when we need both so much in these times... Why is this even allowed ?
People who fall for that "oh it's stereotyping, blah blah" No it's not. There hasto be a deliberate suspicion. They teach English in our schools, so clearly if the guy doesn't know English.. chances are he wasn't born here. I say make a law, if you're here illegally on your second offense you're locked up for 10 years, 5 years if parole eligible.
My ancestors already knew English when they came here... however I'm willing to bet everything I own that many of them came here illegally. Potato famine, crappy economy compared to what we have in the USA and all that.
Same reasons Mexicans come here. They just want to make a living and they can't do it staying in Mexico. If Mexico wasn't such a sh***y country, we wouldn't have this immigration issue right now, plain and simple.
It's not our problem that Mexico is a sh***y country. Send them back anyway and let them demand new leadership in Mexico to fix it.
Your a fine example of an Ugly American, there are a few members here who are of Mexican descent that don't need to hear your raciest views
John_Browning
Veteran
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
13 May 2010, 1:50 am
We speak English in America. Our fore fathers who came here LEGALLY LEARNED English. These people are so ignorant they refuse to learn it. They disrespect our law's, take money and jobs out of our pockets when we need both so much in these times... Why is this even allowed ?
People who fall for that "oh it's stereotyping, blah blah" No it's not. There hasto be a deliberate suspicion. They teach English in our schools, so clearly if the guy doesn't know English.. chances are he wasn't born here. I say make a law, if you're here illegally on your second offense you're locked up for 10 years, 5 years if parole eligible.
My ancestors already knew English when they came here... however I'm willing to bet everything I own that many of them came here illegally. Potato famine, crappy economy compared to what we have in the USA and all that.
Same reasons Mexicans come here. They just want to make a living and they can't do it staying in Mexico. If Mexico wasn't such a sh***y country, we wouldn't have this immigration issue right now, plain and simple.
It's not our problem that Mexico is a sh***y country. Send them back anyway and let them demand new leadership in Mexico to fix it.
Your a fine example of an Ugly American, there are a few members here who are of Mexican descent that don't need to hear your raciest views
It's not just about Mexicans. I only specified Mexicans because I was talking about the previous post. The law is about getting rid of all illegals; even ones from white, english speaking countries. Cops in some cities have already started asking everyone they legally stop for proof of legal residency. Only the Mexicans and illegals from other spanish speaking countries are taking this personal. Illegals from Asia and other places have enough sense not to expect us to put up with their crap just like they wouldn't if we invaded their native country.
_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown
"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud
13 May 2010, 2:24 am
We speak English in America. Our fore fathers who came here LEGALLY LEARNED English. These people are so ignorant they refuse to learn it. They disrespect our law's, take money and jobs out of our pockets when we need both so much in these times... Why is this even allowed ?
People who fall for that "oh it's stereotyping, blah blah" No it's not. There hasto be a deliberate suspicion. They teach English in our schools, so clearly if the guy doesn't know English.. chances are he wasn't born here. I say make a law, if you're here illegally on your second offense you're locked up for 10 years, 5 years if parole eligible.
My ancestors already knew English when they came here... however I'm willing to bet everything I own that many of them came here illegally. Potato famine, crappy economy compared to what we have in the USA and all that.
Same reasons Mexicans come here. They just want to make a living and they can't do it staying in Mexico. If Mexico wasn't such a sh***y country, we wouldn't have this immigration issue right now, plain and simple.
It's not our problem that Mexico is a sh***y country. Send them back anyway and let them demand new leadership in Mexico to fix it.
Your a fine example of an Ugly American, there are a few members here who are of Mexican descent that don't need to hear your raciest views
It's not just about Mexicans. I only specified Mexicans because I was talking about the previous post. The law is about getting rid of all illegals; even ones from white, english speaking countries. Cops in some cities have already started asking everyone they legally stop for proof of legal residency. Only the Mexicans and illegals from other spanish speaking countries are taking this personal. Illegals from Asia and other places have enough sense not to expect us to put up with their crap just like they wouldn't if we invaded their native country.
Ok , what will you do when a cop pulls you over and asks you if your legal citizen, so you carry proof of citizenship, such as a passport or birth certificate, I am sure you would be squawking about your rights and freedoms being abused.
13 May 2010, 11:46 am
Several cities and counties here have announced that they will not be enforcing the law. Reason being? They have no way to teach how to do so with being discriminatory and exposing those agencies to liability. If the law treated everyone equally under it's terms, I would have less issue (though still vehementally opposed on jurisdictional and resource-based grounds), but it doesn't. You cannot fairly enforce an unjust law, and it is a credit to those individuals who recognize that fact. I don't think anyone has argued that there are no problems, only that this attempt is an illegal and inappropriate attempt to deal with it, rooted in discrimination and bigotry. It is interesting to note that these same people who complain were so often silent when the presence of others served to their benefit.
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
13 May 2010, 3:01 pm
Ok , what will you do when a cop pulls you over and asks you if your legal citizen, so you carry proof of citizenship, such as a passport or birth certificate, I am sure you would be squawking about your rights and freedoms being abused.[/quote]
Silentbob15
Since moronic libs never read the law and only spout propoganda that they are told to spout here is the law.
This is all assuming that the person for some reason looks or acts like a foreigner.
quote
"Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:
Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance."
So as you can see, any US citizen, if they had a foreign accent, would only need to show a drivers lic to prove citizenship.
_________________
Dr Manhattan
"I am tired of this world; these people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives"
13 May 2010, 3:07 pm
Sir, this is not a proper and mature way to conduct political debate. Referring to the opposition as "moronic", or even assuming they all funder under the category of "libs" ("liberal" is not the same as "someone I don't agree with"), is rather immature.
13 May 2010, 3:09 pm
Some more education for the likes of Maku.
All that is needed to stop those cimmiting a crime in USA is resonable suspicion. The crime in this case is
STANDING IN USA!
from wiki
"Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion."
Those citys are choosing to NOT enforce USA and AZ law. A felony (274 of the INA) and they will all be jailed and sued when this laws takes effect.
The new law specificly allows any US citizen to sue those that refuse to enforce the law.
This will end all the illegal actions of the lovers of foreign criminals
Dressing like a foreigner
foreign accent
no english
not following US road signs in english
All are "Reasonable suspicion " that the person is a foreigner and they must produce a passport and visa on demand as
required under US and now AZ law.
_________________
Dr Manhattan
"I am tired of this world; these people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives"
13 May 2010, 3:12 pm
Sir, this is not a proper and mature way to conduct political debate. Referring to the opposition as "moronic", or even assuming they all funder under the category of "libs" ("liberal" is not the same as "someone I don't agree with"), is rather immature.
Tell that to the criminals that assulted be last Mayday and the police that refused to go after them.
I am tired of foreign criminals and so are all those people
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html
And a 15 yo snot from Europe should STFU when it comes to USA politics.
_________________
Dr Manhattan
"I am tired of this world; these people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives"
13 May 2010, 4:55 pm
Sir, this is not a proper and mature way to conduct political debate. Referring to the opposition as "moronic", or even assuming they all funder under the category of "libs" ("liberal" is not the same as "someone I don't agree with"), is rather immature.
Tell that to the criminals that assulted be last Mayday and the police that refused to go after them.
I am tired of foreign criminals and so are all those people
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html
And a 15 yo snot from Europe should STFU when it comes to USA politics.
Not a big fan of manners, I see. First of all, criminals have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You're changing the subject.
Second of all, I'll have you know I have a vested interest in what goes on in the United States. I'm probably more knowledgeable than the average citizen, and I daresay I may even be more patriotic. In addition to that, my location does not have any relevance to the value of my opinion. By shutting your ears, you're setting yourself up for failure.
Also, I agree with the spirit of the Arizona law. Unfortunately, unlike you, I do not consider "dressing like a foreigner" and a "foreign accent" to constitute suspicious behavior. You are a shining example of xenophobia at its worst.
John_Browning
Veteran
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
13 May 2010, 10:52 pm
A driver's license is sufficient proof in California (Cal. does not give them to illegals). I have been in the habit of carrying some form of ID on me since I was a teenager.
_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown
"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud
14 May 2010, 12:07 am
Good luck, Worldtraveler, when the law is found unconstitutional and struck down upon fully hitting the books in the coming months - as have all other attempts to implement such laws in Texas, Oklahoma, and other states. And while you choose to insult myself and others, I would suggest that time would be better served in deeper study on the subjects you wish to try and persuade others on. And you might want to review the fact that the legislation as originally proposed did not require any legal violation or prerequisite suspicion to pull over or question a "possible illegal" in Arizona. The bigoted bill that did pass is less expansive than was sought by those shortsighted individuals in the state legislature.
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
14 May 2010, 9:54 am
I guess it really doesn't bother some of you to have your country infested with illegals.
I was talking to a few others about this the other day. We came to the conclusion that if this were 100 or more years ago there'd be better resolve about handing this if it had risen to this extent then. The government (with the blessing of the American people) would have had the army exterminate them as a matter of protecting the nation.
Taking a historical look at the mindset of that time I certainly wouldn't rule out such actions being taken back then.
14 May 2010, 10:19 am
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance."
So as you can see, any US citizen, if they had a foreign accent, would only need to show a drivers lic to prove citizenship.
Can you demonstrate that the driver's licencse issuing authority of every state, district and possession of the United States requires proof of legal presence before issuing a license? I think you will find that this is not, in fact, the case in the majority of US States.
My State Department Driver's License (albeit issued in 1996) certainly required proof of presence, since I had to demonstrate that I was accepted as a foreign diplomat. But my same-sex partner's New York State license required no such demonstration--only the surrender of his Ontario license.
If you are prepared to siphon something in the vicinity of $200bn (yes, billion) out of your national economy, then by all means do so.
Just goes to show that good politics is, in this case, stupid public policy.
_________________
--James
14 May 2010, 12:36 pm
Regardless of how I may personally feel about this law (perhaps understandable, but misguided), I find the general lack of civility in this thread disconcerting to say the least. Posters on both sides of this seem to be taking things way too personally, paging through this thread it reads more like warring religious factions calling each other heretics than a reasoned political debate. On the more practical side, I've yet to see anyone persuaded to change their opinion by being called a traitor, a racist or a fascist, so tossing such invective into the mix is not only crude hyperbole at best, but downright counterproductive to the goals of everyone.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
14 May 2010, 1:43 pm
Maku,
the AZ is a copy of a fed law on the books for decades. How can it be uncon. if it has never been even challenged before?
Truth is people like you are just trying to give hope to the foreign criminals in USA.
As for loss of GDP. That too is a false argument. After a raid in AZ at a grocery store, all 300 positions were filled with
US citizens in the next few days. Dont forget USA has 20% real unemployment. (the so called U6 rate)
And to Michael_Stuart
Criminals IS the issue. All foreigners in USA with no visa are criminals. Not "undocumented" or any other BS. CRIMINALS!
Do you expect me to be "civil" with criminals that have assalted me many times.
[removed - M.] in Europe.
And when I am in europe, I am an obvious foreigner and have been stopped by the police and checked. Why cant USA have the
same laws and enforcment?
Anyone that helps them is also a criminal in violation of Sec 274 of the INA. Hiding in a church, criminal. Giving a ride to protest, criminal.
Saying they should stay in USA, also a felony-criminal action.
As for the drivers licence issue. It would be best if ALL states required citizenship to get one. Then getting rid of these people
would be much easyer. That is why they fight it so hard. They know it works.
_________________
Dr Manhattan
"I am tired of this world; these people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives"
14 May 2010, 4:53 pm
You can keep your personal attacks, WT - I'm not interested in engaging you thusly.
Unfortunately, you refuse to actually read the law or the history behind its' passage. The numerous sections where changes -were- made, and these implementations are criminal in their construction. That the very construction of the law is based on racial profiling and is therefore discriminatory, making anyone who enforces such a law into a criminal themselves under that manner of thought. Expressing one's opinion is not a criminal act, and that you state that you want those who disagree with you charged with a felony is more indicative of your own feelings of insecurity on the subject, in my opinion, than being a legitimate claim.
Focus on the issue, and knock off the personal attacks towards myself and others. You have been warned.
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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