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Can the belief of the existence of a supreme being ever be proved?
Yes 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
No 29%  29%  [ 20 ]
Of course, I am the living proof! 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Only if Invisible Pink Unicorns can also be proved 20%  20%  [ 14 ]
Look around you! the evidence of an intelligent designer 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
God is the universe and the universe is God 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
AG is a strident semi-god 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
I can't say, perhaps tomorrow we can prove it 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
I am not sure 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
All of the above 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
None of the above 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Half of the above 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
other 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
View results 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 70

Amber-Miasma
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22 Jun 2010, 11:16 am

No, they create their worlds around them which are linked by a common consciousness, i,e, we are all cells in one big consciousness that wouldn't exist without all our contribution, basically reality would fall apart if people stopped believing what they seen in front of their eyes, and their ears, nose, mouth, skin, ect.

Many religions interpret this consciousness as a sort of bank of records, like a hard drive with text files on them. Through meditation they say you can learn to sync your mind with it and access the past 300,000 years of human knowledge. Although it would be useless if you developed yourself that far as it would only be relevant to an absolute spec, a nano atom, of all that's out there.

Yes, we all exists on a base of matter, or the void if you will, don't ask me to put how this must be into words. It's not possible.


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22 Jun 2010, 3:47 pm

I guess it's time I started joining into the fray...

Amber-Miasma wrote:
No, they create their worlds around them which are linked by a common consciousness, i,e, we are all cells in one big consciousness that wouldn't exist without all our contribution, basically reality would fall apart if people stopped believing what they seen in front of their eyes, and their ears, nose, mouth, skin, ect.


So, where does this "consciousness" come from then? I see that you have been making quite a bit of claims with scant justification.

As for reality, there are already plenty (read: BILLIONS) of people who don't believe what is in front of their senses on a daily basis. But to quote Philip K Dick, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".

Reality, as it exists today, has been around for at least 13.7 billion years, and during most of that time there wasn't any humans around to be aware of it. Reality will not fall apart if humans suddenly go away, or if we were all made blind, deaf, etc.

After all, if reality really is defined by our so-called collective conscious, then why do we have wars, disease, famine, etc.

Quote:
Many religions interpret this consciousness as a sort of bank of records, like a hard drive with text files on them.


Given that ALL religions have the vast majority of the details of the psychology of their own species wrong (let alone details about the physical universe), I seriously doubt that this is the case. It seems to me that religions are more of an evolutionary by-product of having a neo-cortex rather than being a source of knowledge or wisdom.

Quote:
Through meditation they say you can learn to sync your mind with it and access the past 300,000 years of human knowledge. Although it would be useless if you developed yourself that far as it would only be relevant to an absolute spec, a nano atom, of all that's out there.


So, when one meditates, then why don't we gain knowledge of Bison or Wooly Mammoths? Or why don't people who extensively meditate all of the sudden gain knowledge of the various wild plants and animals that were extensively used by the hunter-gatherers? I've certainly never observed something like that happening to someone when people meditate.

Or how about more contemporary examples, like gaining modern scientific knowledge without having to read a textbook, or the knowledge of thousands of useful plants in the Amazon used daily by the various tribes there?


Quote:
Yes, we all exists on a base of matter, or the void if you will, don't ask me to put how this must be into words. It's not possible.


We all exist, certainly, but not in the way that you describe. Of all organisms that have ever existed, only those with a central nervous system can be said to be "conscious". And they represent only a tiny minority, the vast majority of all life out there are non-sentient micro-organisms.

To claim that there is a universal consciousness is a pretty extraordinary one, and one that requires extraordinary evidence.


NalaFontaine wrote:
why should my faith depend on proving God, that alone is doubting God.


For the same reason that you demand proof of the existence of leprechauns, unicorns, Thor, Zeus, Brahmin, etc. By claiming the existence of God you are in effect making a claim about the nature of reality itself, and thus you shift the burden of proof to yourself as well.


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Amber-Miasma
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22 Jun 2010, 4:45 pm

Nah, they have faith that what they're experiencing isn't real, belief and faith are two completely different concepts. Without belief there is nothing but void.

I don't know where it comes from, I suppose the concept behind Origin is what we use to describe the very edges of our understanding. Now I know what you're thinking "he's just using this as an excuse to avoid answering", believe me, if I knew the answer then I'd tell you but I don't; I suppose the collective just "is".

We have wars, death, suffering and the like because violence is built into our minds, there have been studies suggesting that we have receptors built into our brain pre-tuned to release gratifying hormones in reaction to violence, much the same way a sex. And to be quite perfectly honest, with the best will in the world it would be extremely difficult to forsake all you know, all you feel, and all that's comfortable; I mean, people are typically s**t scared of the unknown when passing into death (I've heard tell of many ardent atheists taking up religion before they pass on), how exactly would they cope with changing their realities? It would be paramount to suicide in most people's minds.

I didn't mean as pertaining to religion or belief about the records, I meant as a whole the knowledge and information (yes, lies and half-truths as well :roll: ) of the human race. If you want to bring it up even further; why know the knowledge of everything in our universe? Although the Humanity concept seems more realistic considering as it's the genus and mindset we're all most familiar with.

Because casual meditation is fine and well but your specific purpose is paramount during a meditation session, you can meditate on anything to gain wisdom from it but it's not like "I'll just cross my legs, close my eyes and BAM! PhD here I come" It's absolutely necessary to fine tune your mind to the concept's "wavelength" if you will. It's nothing like reading a book, it's far more fulfilling. Again, this is something you have to learn to do yourself.

Your next point I shouldn't consider trying to answer, again, it's a matter of belief, I really can't prove it to you as you must experience it yourself. I'm not here to convince you, only to add another avenue to the mix.

Your next quote, I mean really, *read above, repeat till satisfied*.


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ruveyn
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22 Jun 2010, 4:56 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Are you claiming there is no other mind in the universe apart from that which preceives it all? Are you saying a single mind creates the universe?


An interesting thought, but there is not a shred of empirical evidence to back it up. Not a shred.

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22 Jun 2010, 6:50 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
No, they create their worlds around them which are linked by a common consciousness, i,e, we are all cells in one big consciousness that wouldn't exist without all our contribution, basically reality would fall apart if people stopped believing what they seen in front of their eyes, and their ears, nose, mouth, skin, ect.

Many religions interpret this consciousness as a sort of bank of records, like a hard drive with text files on them. Through meditation they say you can learn to sync your mind with it and access the past 300,000 years of human knowledge. Although it would be useless if you developed yourself that far as it would only be relevant to an absolute spec, a nano atom, of all that's out there.

Yes, we all exists on a base of matter, or the void if you will, don't ask me to put how this must be into words. It's not possible.


Okay, this is getting increasingly obscurantist. Do the rocks, rivers, magma, and clouds of the Earth have consciousness independently of humans (or sentient non-human animals) perceiving them?



Amber-Miasma
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22 Jun 2010, 7:02 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
No, they create their worlds around them which are linked by a common consciousness, i,e, we are all cells in one big consciousness that wouldn't exist without all our contribution, basically reality would fall apart if people stopped believing what they seen in front of their eyes, and their ears, nose, mouth, skin, ect.

Many religions interpret this consciousness as a sort of bank of records, like a hard drive with text files on them. Through meditation they say you can learn to sync your mind with it and access the past 300,000 years of human knowledge. Although it would be useless if you developed yourself that far as it would only be relevant to an absolute spec, a nano atom, of all that's out there.

Yes, we all exists on a base of matter, or the void if you will, don't ask me to put how this must be into words. It's not possible.


Okay, this is getting increasingly obscurantist. Do the rocks, rivers, magma, and clouds of the Earth have consciousness independently of humans (or sentient non-human animals) perceiving them?


It's only obscure if you allow it to be mate :P

Short answer? Yes. Although they're all cells in a larger consciousness. I believe I've answered this before. Are there any other questions or may I rest?


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22 Jun 2010, 7:05 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:

It's only obscure if you allow it to be mate :P

Short answer? Yes. Although they're all cells in a larger consciousness. I believe I've answered this before. Are there any other questions or may I rest?


So essentially:

Everything on earth is conscious --- > everything " " is interconnected --- > Interconnections form a global consciousness



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22 Jun 2010, 7:06 pm

You have the gist of it, yes.


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22 Jun 2010, 7:10 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
You have the gist of it, yes.


Is it just planet earth or do other planets have "global consciousness"?



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22 Jun 2010, 7:13 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
You have the gist of it, yes.


Is it just planet earth or do other planets have "global consciousness"?


Everything does. Think of something, and somewhere it'll be contributing to the collective.

My believe in nature as a spiritual path is just a way of life for me here on this "plane" if you will and a way for me to connect deeper. My base belief is what I just described, I could follow any religion and still know I was being true to myself because of it. But I find peace in nature.


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Last edited by Amber-Miasma on 22 Jun 2010, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jun 2010, 7:16 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
You have the gist of it, yes.


Is it just planet earth or do other planets have "global consciousness"?


Everything does. Think of something, and somewhere it'll be contributing to the collective.


Every piece of matter conscious ---- > matter interconnected ---- > worlds thus conscious ----> worlds interconnected ---> universe thus conscious ?



Amber-Miasma
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22 Jun 2010, 7:23 pm

No, not all of reality. Everything you know and can sense, yes.

Think of this reality as a "matrix" we cannot comprehend what is outside of it because we have entrenched our minds in the collective so deeply. There are infinite possibilities outside but it's like trying to see through a brick wall. You need to disengage from this reality to come to terms with those outside.


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22 Jun 2010, 7:25 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
No, not all of reality. Everything you know and can sense, yes.

Think of this reality as a "matrix" we cannot comprehend what is outside of it because we have entrenched our minds in the collective so deeply. There are infinite possibilities outside but it's like trying to see through a brick wall. You need to disengage from this reality to come to terms with those outside.


That's a deepity.



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22 Jun 2010, 7:27 pm

What is a deepity?


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22 Jun 2010, 7:34 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
What is a deepity?


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf128852-0-60.html

^ Video at the top of this page.

Essentially, any ambigious statement that may either be true but trival or false but earth shattering if it were true.



Amber-Miasma
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22 Jun 2010, 7:39 pm

Ah I see.

So like, if I wrote "a magical kingdom of unicorn warriors descended from the skies and laid waste to the planet earth" and you read it somewhere you'd be like "meh" even though it COULD be true because you haven't seen it. Where as we both know this is false but it would be major and panic educing if it WERE true. Like a fairy tale basically?


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