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Wisguy
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08 Jul 2010, 1:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
A lot of the stuff they're talking about isn't really high speed rail. The supposed "high speed" rail they want to build here in Wisconsin from Milwaukee to Madison's top speed would only be like 78-100 mph. God knows why they want to build a train between Milwaukee and Madison, not like it's that hard of a drive, taking a train would certainly take long, and you'd probably spend less on gas than you would on a ONE ticket. Students at UW-Madison already have a bus line between Madison and Milwaukee. It would just be a giant unwarranted money pit that would have to be subsidized by the tax payer.

I agree that this proposal is in no way anything closely resembling a true 'high speed' service. To create a true high-speed line (as in 300-350 km/h, as are now being built all over China and western Europe) between, let's say, Chicago and MSP, would require the creation of an entirely new ROW cross-country line that would bypass EVERYTHING, operating with zero intermediate stops as any stops along the way would make it uncompetitive with airlines. The line would likely have to cross Wisconsin on a routing that roughly follows US 12 into the state from the south and then kind of follows UP's ex CNW Adams Line (a railroad that was originally built over 100 years ago as a dedicated high-speed passenger line) and another part of US 12 the rest of the way to the MStP area. A line could branch off of it with full-speed switches near Watertown, WI to provide service between MStP and Milwaukee while a new grade (elevated over an existing line?) could provide upgraded service between MKE and Chicago.

The Chicago-Milwaukee portion could operate much like China's new Tianjin-Beijing line (similar distance) - about 30 minutes from 'doors close' in Tianjin and 'doors open' in Beijing.

Think BIG BUCKS to build awith perhaps insurmountable NIMBY opposition and a bunch of POed Wisconsin politicians along the way.

As for service to Madison and Northeastern Wisconsin (the Fox Valley is one of the largest total markets not served by Amtrak)? It will likely not ever be anything more than about 175km/h 'enhanced speed' type service. The only reason why Amtrak did not take over CNW's very popular Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay (via Appleton and Oshkosh) service on their startup in 1971 was that at that time, CNW's track was in too decrepit of a condition, something that is no longer an issue today (CN's ex WC, nee CNW Green Bay line is in FANTASTIC shape!).

Yes, even though I am quite libertarian/conservative, this is something that I do see bubbling up, perhaps not now (Wisconsin has a state budget hole that will likely end up deep-sixing the current proposals), but the demand from the Appleton/Oshkosh/Green Bay area is there and it would save me a lot of transport hassles when traveling to and from Chicago.

Fuel prices will be a BIG wild-card in all of this, too.

An aside - where would the airline industry be today without their incredible public subsidies over the years?

Mike



ruveyn
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08 Jul 2010, 3:21 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Why? Japan has mountainous landscapes and serious earthquakes and they can still build and maintain their rail systems. It shouldn't be that hard to manufacture a network in a country that's mostly flat and we previously railed up back in the 19th century.


The flat parts are privately owned. The only way to acquire the rights of way is very heavy handed use of Eminent Domain. Even with E.D. the owners will have to compensated reasonably or they will tie the thing up in the courts for a decade.

ruveyn



Quartz11
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08 Jul 2010, 3:26 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Quartz11 wrote:
Going across the country, we need a collapse of a oil based society.



But the point of this would be to head off such a crisis before it occurs so that infrastructure is in place before the collapse. I mean I can see how society will just continue on forward to the collapse without a structure in place but it'd be wise to at least try to set up some kind of structure beforehand for such a collapse as the oil based society. It'd be foolish to do nothing before such a collapse.


Yes, but I just think that society is remarkably shortsighted in regards to this sort of situation here.



skafather84
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08 Jul 2010, 3:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The flat parts are privately owned.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00783.html


Ownership doesn't matter when the right people don't want it to.


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skafather84
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08 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm

Quartz11 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Quartz11 wrote:
Going across the country, we need a collapse of a oil based society.



But the point of this would be to head off such a crisis before it occurs so that infrastructure is in place before the collapse. I mean I can see how society will just continue on forward to the collapse without a structure in place but it'd be wise to at least try to set up some kind of structure beforehand for such a collapse as the oil based society. It'd be foolish to do nothing before such a collapse.


Yes, but I just think that society is remarkably shortsighted in regards to this sort of situation here.


Yeah, we're not a society of preparation. Just retardation.


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ruveyn
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08 Jul 2010, 3:53 pm

skafather84 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The flat parts are privately owned.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00783.html


Ownership doesn't matter when the right people don't want it to.


The matter will be fought in the courts for a decade. That is one of the reasons we don't have a centrally planned economy.

ruveyn



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08 Jul 2010, 3:54 pm

skafather84 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The flat parts are privately owned.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00783.html


Ownership doesn't matter when the right people don't want it to.


That was a sad and disgusting day.

Having been to New London and seen this neighborhood, all they did was build one office complex and that was it. And then the company moved three years later anyway. The entire neighborhood got leveled for NOTHING.