I'm ashamed of us all.

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Sand
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28 Sep 2010, 12:39 am

auntblabby wrote:

Sand wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

We are all born selfish. If we were not, our race would soon perish.

ruveyn

That doesn't mean that selfishness is okay or should be encouraged. I mean, what's so wrong about the idea of loving others?

Loving others is a form of selfishness.

how does this work?

People (like ruveyn, for example) are intensely protective of their immediate family. But ruveyn has repeatedly stated his desire to atom bomb all the Muslims of the world. That's love of a kind that includes close relatives as a necessary part of the self but excludes a generous part of the rest of the world. More open minded people want to protect all other people and by that gain personal security. A more open kind of selfishness.

quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 12:43 am

Sand wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Sand wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

We are all born selfish. If we were not, our race would soon perish.

ruveyn

That doesn't mean that selfishness is okay or should be encouraged. I mean, what's so wrong about the idea of loving others?

Loving others is a form of selfishness.

how does this work?

People (like ruveyn, for example) are intensely protective of their immediate family. But ruveyn has repeatedly stated his desire to atom bomb all the Muslims of the world. That's love of a kind that includes close relatives as a necessary part of the self but excludes a generous part of the rest of the world. More open minded people want to protect all other people and by that gain personal security. A more open kind of selfishness.

(In response to the bolded portion.) And how exactly do you know that for a fact? Have you polled every single open-minded person in the world? After all, protecting others and gaining personal security don't go hand-in-hand, so I don't see why you seem to think that everyone who wants to protect others has selfish motives.

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Sand
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28 Sep 2010, 2:15 am

quiet_dove wrote:

Sand wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Sand wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

We are all born selfish. If we were not, our race would soon perish.

ruveyn

That doesn't mean that selfishness is okay or should be encouraged. I mean, what's so wrong about the idea of loving others?

Loving others is a form of selfishness.

how does this work?

People (like ruveyn, for example) are intensely protective of their immediate family. But ruveyn has repeatedly stated his desire to atom bomb all the Muslims of the world. That's love of a kind that includes close relatives as a necessary part of the self but excludes a generous part of the rest of the world. More open minded people want to protect all other people and by that gain personal security. A more open kind of selfishness.

All life is designed to survive. It's basic. We each have different strategies to accomplish this. That's what selfishness basically is.

zena4
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28 Sep 2010, 2:31 am

quiet_dove wrote:

After all, protecting others and gaining personal security don't go hand-in-hand, so I don't see why you seem to think that everyone who wants to protect others has selfish motives.

If i take my own example - and okay, it's only one example -, I think it goes hand-in-hand because I believe that most people in the world wants to be happy and to be happy, one needs security.

So the more the world is secure, the more people feel happy and relaxed and at ease to live in that said world.

And when people are relaxed and at ease, they don't need to challenge each other and make war.

On the opposite: they like to work hand-in-hand all together and learn from one another so as to spread the peace for themselves and for their children and their grand-children if they have any.

Or for any child actually.

zena4
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28 Sep 2010, 3:23 am

Any child of any age - I'm not racist.

ruveyn
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28 Sep 2010, 6:17 am

Sand wrote:

People like ruveyn want to protect their families by destroying the bad guys. But the only way to do that effectively is to inflict collateral damage. People like ruveyn do not give f*ck-all about collateral damage, not anymore than the allies did during WW2 when they killed over a million civilians in air attacks, many of those killed being women and children. Collateral damage is one of the infelicities of modern warfare.

Sh*t happens.

ruveyn

Sand
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28 Sep 2010, 6:53 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

That was a quick confirmation.

ruveyn
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28 Sep 2010, 6:55 am

Sand wrote:

That was a quick confirmation.

Semper veritus. Always truthful.

ruveyn

quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 9:01 am

Sand wrote:

All life is designed to survive. It's basic. We each have different strategies to accomplish this. That's what selfishness basically is.

Not everyone lacks empathy, though. What about the millions of people on this planet who don't lack empathy and who do genuinely care about other people than themselves?

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quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 9:08 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

In other words, you'd rather kill innocent human beings in a war (and don't try to pretend that there are never any unnecessary civilian casualties in war) than even try to consider the fact that they're inherently equal to you. Again, your hatred is disgusting.

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Ancalagon
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28 Sep 2010, 9:10 am

quiet_dove wrote:

Sand wrote:

All life is designed to survive. It's basic. We each have different strategies to accomplish this. That's what selfishness basically is.

Not everyone lacks empathy, though. What about the millions of people on this planet who don't lack empathy and who do genuinely care about other people than themselves?

I don't think you're using the word 'selfishness' in the same way. I didn't see him say it had anything to do with a lack of empathy.

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quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 9:15 am

Ancalagon wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

Sand wrote:

All life is designed to survive. It's basic. We each have different strategies to accomplish this. That's what selfishness basically is.

Not everyone lacks empathy, though. What about the millions of people on this planet who don't lack empathy and who do genuinely care about other people than themselves?

I don't think you're using the word 'selfishness' in the same way. I didn't see him say it had anything to do with a lack of empathy.

True. I guess I should have said that not everyone is arrogant, rather than saying that not everyone lacks empathy. After all, selfishness is a form of arrogance, since it involves thinking that one is more important and has more worth than all of the billions of other human beings on the planet.

Thanks for the correction. (And no, I'm not being sarcastic, don't worry.)

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ruveyn
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28 Sep 2010, 9:15 am

quiet_dove wrote:

Whatever it takes to conclude the war with victory. I am not interested in matters of High Morality. I am interested in winning the war.

ruveyn

quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 9:17 am

ruveyn wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

Whatever it takes to conclude the war with victory. I am not interested in matters of High Morality. I am interested in winning the war.

ruveyn

So you admit that you're a cold, selfish, uncaring human being?

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ruveyn
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28 Sep 2010, 9:21 am

quiet_dove wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

Whatever it takes to conclude the war with victory. I am not interested in matters of High Morality. I am interested in winning the war.

ruveyn

So you admit that you're a cold, selfish, uncaring human being?

It took you this long to come to that conclusion? I care about those who are close to me. I am relatively indifferent to strangers although I try to be polite. Selfish is how we survive. If you gave away all your food you would starve. If you keep some for yourself you are selfish. What do you do?

ruveyn

ruveyn

quiet_dove
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28 Sep 2010, 9:26 am

ruveyn wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

quiet_dove wrote:

Whatever it takes to conclude the war with victory. I am not interested in matters of High Morality. I am interested in winning the war.

ruveyn

So you admit that you're a cold, selfish, uncaring human being?

Why not try to care about others, though? You don't have to be uncaring, you know. So why do you seem to think that it's good to be uncaring, as though people who are caring never survive? There have been billions (probably even trillions or quadrillions) of people on this planet who have lived their lives caring about others and have survived for a good, long time. So why not try to be one of those people yourself?

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