Cut illegal immigrants some slack

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Okay I finally have time to debate. I have a lot of cat catching up to do...

"No softening of manners, no advance in wealth, and no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimeter nearer." -George Orwell

Your notion of equality is a pipe dream that is a form of self-delusion perpetuated by people with no experience dealing with the real world. The planet is overpopulated and there is no way to make resources go around. The haves will use the resources at their disposal to defend what they have, and the have nots will continue to get the shaft. Nationalism is an extension of this; America cannot fix the poverty in the rest of the world so the only thing that can be done is to look after Americans.


Asking for figures is a bit hypocritical since you haven't shown any figures either and we haven't discussed figures yet, but if you insist...

There are 23,000,000 alien invaders in the US (that would make a big difference in unemployment and social service costs).
In the last decade they have wired $317,000,000,000 to Latin America.
In the last decade they cost $397,000,000,000 in healthcare costs.
There are 5,000,000 alien invader spawn in public schools (not counting anchor babies).
There have been 5,000,000 anchor babies born in the US in the last decade.
Their cost to the public school system has been $178,000,000,000
There are 432,000 alien invaders incarcerated.
There are 753,000 alien invader fugitives.
Their cost of incarceration for the last 2 years alone is $28,000,000,000. That works out to ~$140,000,000 for the last decade.
Alien invaders take up 11,000,000 skilled jobs.

The total cost of illegal immigration for the last decade is ~$1,032,000,000,000,000. All figures are rounded down. That amount of money would have paid for the war on terror or paid off Obamacare. I didn't even factor in the cost of the jobs lost to alien invaders or the costs to citizens and valid visa holders from the cost of treating the diseases alien invaders carry or the injuries from them getting behind the wheel (often while drunk).

California propositions 187 and 209 were approved by voters to ban public services to alien invaders, but they were struck down in the state supreme court. Alien invaders regularly collect welfare, social security, foodstamps, and medicaid.

We did that as long as possible and got a huge workforce and some real intellectual gems from the deal. Now there isn't room for them- both physically or in the economy. We took all we can and there is very little room for more intellectuals (we have a surplus of cheap, and in some cases expendable) labor and it would be detrimental to the nation to take on more.

Also, Europe isn't a bad now as it was back then. Perhaps they'd like to take upon themselves some of the illegal immigrants who keep trying to illegally immigrate to the U.S. Or perhaps take hyperlexian up on her offer, let them immigrate to her home in Canada.

I'm sure hyperlexian wil learn to love the bad/drunk rivers, mariachi music all hours of the night, dangerous dogs running loose in the neighborhood, kids that are watched about as closely as their dogs, and neighbors having alcohol fueled domestic disturbances that regularly require the cops to come play Mexican marriage counselor.

Oh they'll bring the kids all right.

I have liberal views, but it's not so easy to accommodate a population that for the most part doesn't assimilate, essentially doesn't respect the laws of the country they've snuck into, and doesn't value education. If they came here, paid taxes, honored our laws, stayed in school at least until high school, and didn't generally adopt a backward poverty mentality, I don't think there would be so much of a problem but that's hardly the case. A lot of them get free health care, don't pay taxes, walk around with this thug mentality, are pregnant by the time they're fifteen, then end up in jail and leave the kids with the grand parents. I understand it's hard to migrate here legally (it can take 10 years) and I know it's impossible to make a living on 64 cents a day, but if your butt just has to be in my country, at least behave yourself. It's not too much to ask.

Also, I'd just like to add to this that I'd hate to think what we spend in total for English-2nd-Language programs, recruitment of bilingual teachers, and the general cost associated with feeling obligated to educate all of those that "don't habla."

In my schools, every time we had a student come in speaking some obscure language like Malayalam, the school had to go and hire some interpreter just so this one student could habla, on the taxpayer dime of course. There is a bigger cost than many may realize for all of these ESLers, to say nothing of their massive burden on the rest of society.



I'd have a ton of nickels if I had a nickel for every time I saw a Senegalese or a Haitian, or something else pay for cigarettes and beer at a gas station with their EBT card. Its like they just get one gratuitiously for showing up........... no one really knows why? They are generally underhanded enough to play the system and suck out every benefit they can from it. Why not, it is so easy for them?



Well it really kind of is, as people in 3rd world nations and their supporters use this as a vehicle to justify why they should be allowed to migrate.



My fault........ you are right. I'm still a rookie



Do black people study anything anymore besides black studies? Its like their whole agenda nowadays is just majoring in 'being black,.' Its kind of pathetic actually.

I'd like to see Caucasian studies, Occidental studies, and stuff like that begin to be accepted in academia, but for obvious reasons I doubt you'll see that.

All of these 'black studies' professors just study being black, and continue to propegate their own exceptionalism and 'oppressed minority' conviction. They should just get over themselves already. Besides bitching about slavery and demanding welfare and social services, what do they do to actually be a boon to the community that doesn't involve financing their pet projects with taxpayer money?

About as absurd as their ideas that Ebonics should be its own language, etc, etc..

For a fun game, try and list things as useless as a Black Studies professor: I'll start..... An empty can of paint, banana peels, a soiled diaper.......

I use an empty can of paint to store paint-brushes. You can smoke banana peels or do all this:

http://www.rd.com/home-garden/9-extraor ... 23748.html

And diapers? Well, if you use cloth ones you can re-use them, and if not..well they do now make compostable ones....

Your things aren't useless enough, or your professor is more useful than you think.

thank you, i stand corrected. american is more evolved and more supportive of its people than i had imagined!

How are they our people if they're here illegally? I can see how that might be if they were in prison but they are not(else they wouldn't be on welfare) so i see no reason they should be fed and supported on tax payer money. Illegal immigrants are not citizens and should never benefit from government support otherwise a nation or group of nations could just send a crap load of people over here and siphon off our governments money.

EDIT: I feel i should point out that you saying America is more supportive of "its people"(whom you referred to as our people but who are not) is incorrect if you take into consideration that the people of California are now being forced to pay welfare to illegals against their will. (also i would like to point out that the ruling was unjustified as the bill would have cut off government benefits for illegals but would not have changed any federal regulations.)

Hanotaux, is there a reason why you haven't replied to the above post of mine?

well, you have your opinion of who is american (and therefore entitled to welfare), and at least one state government disagrees. your opinion is not inherently more valid than your government's.

Excuse me? my governments constitution states clearly who is a citizen the people born to Americans and born in America. Who are you a Canadian to tell me what my government thinks. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to welfare at all the only exception to this is when they have an American child otherwise they have to steal it using someone else's SSN.

EDIT: And even then legally speaking its the children who are receiving the aid.

Your combination of hyper-idealism and hyper-naivety is comical.

I did reply to your point about the black 'professors.'

I think that the question that you have to ask yourselves (as we do in Canada) is, "Is the cure worse than the disease?" Why do you think that so many big city mayors are reacting so negatively to efforts to come down hard on "illegals?" Why do you think that the Bush Administration was looking at ways to regularlize the status of various classes of illegals?

Start doing the math.

How much to "illegals" receive from various levels of government?
How much do "illegals" contribute through income and value-added taxes?
How much economic activity do "illegals" generate through commercial activity?

Using some very conservative estimates about illegal immigrants in the United States you can demonstrate that they create in excess of $20 billion in direct economic activity. That probably equates to about a $35 billion contribution to the GDP of the United States.

The sales taxes generated at point of sale (in states with sales taxes), and the income taxes generated by withholdings at source far outstrip the aggregate benefits claimed by illegals.

Be careful what you wish for. You may wind up shooting yourself in the foot.

I'd rather be a naive idealist than a hateful racist like you.

And why didn't you respond to the rest of my post?