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hyperlexian
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29 Sep 2010, 7:55 am

John_Browning wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ummmm well... illegal immigrants would technically not be entitled to welfare, so the point about mexicans jumping the border and stealing all of the welfare dollars does not make sense. it can't be both ways...
if you have a problem with the legal immigrants who are on welfare, perhaps you should lobby your goverment or something about changing immigration criteria, but they are not the group we are talking about here...

i am pretty sure that any illegal immigrant who tried to access social assistance would be deported.

California propositions 187 and 209 were approved by voters to ban public services to alien invaders, but they were struck down in the state supreme court. Alien invaders regularly collect welfare, social security, foodstamps, and medicaid.

thank you, i stand corrected. american is more evolved and more supportive of its people than i had imagined!


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ikorack
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29 Sep 2010, 8:16 am

hyperlexian wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ummmm well... illegal immigrants would technically not be entitled to welfare, so the point about mexicans jumping the border and stealing all of the welfare dollars does not make sense. it can't be both ways...
if you have a problem with the legal immigrants who are on welfare, perhaps you should lobby your goverment or something about changing immigration criteria, but they are not the group we are talking about here...

i am pretty sure that any illegal immigrant who tried to access social assistance would be deported.

California propositions 187 and 209 were approved by voters to ban public services to alien invaders, but they were struck down in the state supreme court. Alien invaders regularly collect welfare, social security, foodstamps, and medicaid.

thank you, i stand corrected. american is more evolved and more supportive of its people than i had imagined!


How are they our people if they're here illegally? I can see how that might be if they were in prison but they are not(else they wouldn't be on welfare) so i see no reason they should be fed and supported on tax payer money. Illegal immigrants are not citizens and should never benefit from government support otherwise a nation or group of nations could just send a crap load of people over here and siphon off our governments money.

EDIT: I feel i should point out that you saying America is more supportive of "its people"(whom you referred to as our people but who are not) is incorrect if you take into consideration that the people of California are now being forced to pay welfare to illegals against their will. (also i would like to point out that the ruling was unjustified as the bill would have cut off government benefits for illegals but would not have changed any federal regulations.)



quiet_dove
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29 Sep 2010, 9:32 am

quiet_dove wrote:
Hanotaux wrote:
I used to play basketball with a few black guys when I was in the Army. I wiped the floor with them too.

Were those black people primitive at all? If not, then why do you seem to think that all black people are primitive?

Quote:
Like Professor Gates?

No, like Ian Williams and Chola Chisunka. (Click on their names to go to their websites. And yes, both of them are published authors.)

Quote:
Seriously, just conform to being a wigger already ! !! (sarcasm)

Asking you to accept that not all black people act in exactly the same way is nothing like asking you to act like a black person. Your analogy fails horribly.

Quote:
Do you always preface every thought of yours with 'Seriously?"

Obviously not. I didn't even use that word once in this reply.

Hanotaux, is there a reason why you haven't replied to the above post of mine?


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hyperlexian
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29 Sep 2010, 10:19 am

ikorack wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ummmm well... illegal immigrants would technically not be entitled to welfare, so the point about mexicans jumping the border and stealing all of the welfare dollars does not make sense. it can't be both ways...
if you have a problem with the legal immigrants who are on welfare, perhaps you should lobby your goverment or something about changing immigration criteria, but they are not the group we are talking about here...

i am pretty sure that any illegal immigrant who tried to access social assistance would be deported.

California propositions 187 and 209 were approved by voters to ban public services to alien invaders, but they were struck down in the state supreme court. Alien invaders regularly collect welfare, social security, foodstamps, and medicaid.

thank you, i stand corrected. american is more evolved and more supportive of its people than i had imagined!


How are they our people if they're here illegally? I can see how that might be if they were in prison but they are not(else they wouldn't be on welfare) so i see no reason they should be fed and supported on tax payer money. Illegal immigrants are not citizens and should never benefit from government support otherwise a nation or group of nations could just send a crap load of people over here and siphon off our governments money.

EDIT: I feel i should point out that you saying America is more supportive of "its people"(whom you referred to as our people but who are not) is incorrect if you take into consideration that the people of California are now being forced to pay welfare to illegals against their will. (also i would like to point out that the ruling was unjustified as the bill would have cut off government benefits for illegals but would not have changed any federal regulations.)
well, you have your opinion of who is american (and therefore entitled to welfare), and at least one state government disagrees. your opinion is not inherently more valid than your government's.


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ikorack
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29 Sep 2010, 10:31 am

Excuse me? my governments constitution states clearly who is a citizen the people born to Americans and born in America. Who are you a Canadian to tell me what my government thinks. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to welfare at all the only exception to this is when they have an American child otherwise they have to steal it using someone else's SSN.

EDIT: And even then legally speaking its the children who are receiving the aid.



Hanotaux
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29 Sep 2010, 1:35 pm

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Hanotaux, is there a reason why you haven't replied to the above post of mine?


Your combination of hyper-idealism and hyper-naivety is comical.

I did reply to your point about the black 'professors.'



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29 Sep 2010, 1:53 pm

I think that the question that you have to ask yourselves (as we do in Canada) is, "Is the cure worse than the disease?" Why do you think that so many big city mayors are reacting so negatively to efforts to come down hard on "illegals?" Why do you think that the Bush Administration was looking at ways to regularlize the status of various classes of illegals?

Start doing the math.

How much to "illegals" receive from various levels of government?
How much do "illegals" contribute through income and value-added taxes?
How much economic activity do "illegals" generate through commercial activity?

Using some very conservative estimates about illegal immigrants in the United States you can demonstrate that they create in excess of $20 billion in direct economic activity. That probably equates to about a $35 billion contribution to the GDP of the United States.

The sales taxes generated at point of sale (in states with sales taxes), and the income taxes generated by withholdings at source far outstrip the aggregate benefits claimed by illegals.

Be careful what you wish for. You may wind up shooting yourself in the foot.


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quiet_dove
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29 Sep 2010, 2:07 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
Hanotaux, is there a reason why you haven't replied to the above post of mine?


Your combination of hyper-idealism and hyper-naivety is comical.

I did reply to your point about the black 'professors.'

I'd rather be a naive idealist than a hateful racist like you.

And why didn't you respond to the rest of my post?


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Hanotaux
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29 Sep 2010, 2:10 pm

Quote:
And why didn't you respond to the rest of my post?


I didn't see anything worth responding to............



quiet_dove
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29 Sep 2010, 2:14 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
And why didn't you respond to the rest of my post?


I didn't see anything worth responding to............

I asked you plenty of relevant questions. Why didn't you respond to those?


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quiet_dove
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29 Sep 2010, 2:16 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Do black people study anything anymore besides black studies? Its like their whole agenda nowadays is just majoring in 'being black,.' Its kind of pathetic actually.

I'd like to see Caucasian studies, Occidental studies, and stuff like that begin to be accepted in academia, but for obvious reasons I doubt you'll see that.

All of these 'black studies' professors just study being black, and continue to propegate their own exceptionalism and 'oppressed minority' conviction. They should just get over themselves already. Besides bitching about slavery and demanding welfare and social services, what do they do to actually be a boon to the community that doesn't involve financing their pet projects with taxpayer money?

About as absurd as their ideas that Ebonics should be its own language, etc, etc..

You do realize that Dr. Chisunka teaches classes other than Black Studies, don't you? And why didn't you comment on Dr. Williams at all?


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29 Sep 2010, 2:29 pm

Quote:
Asking you to accept that not all black people act in exactly the same way is nothing like asking you to act like a black person. Your analogy fails horribly.


Institutionalizing diversity in a nation ensures that most of the residents, and if not them their progeny, will eventually have to embrace multiculturalist lifestyles...........

In America, the ability to reside in a unicultural area is gradually being eroded away.

The government builds little colonies of black people in housing complexes all over the country in 'white areas.' In America in fact, a city or county can get blasted by the government for being 'too white,' and then mandatory population transfers usually happen.

You will see it in suburbs as you get further and further out in a city. You'll see the townhouses go up, etc, etc.


Quote:
Were those black people primitive at all? If not, then why do you seem to think that all black people are primitive?


Personal experience and years of living in heavily minoritied areas, etc.

Every diverse insitution I've ever seen has been a model of dysfunction, including Army units composed heavily of black people(the Army is not immune to dysfunction.)

Pretty much every black-majority city or area in the USA is a MarionBerryesque festering hole. Amazingly, its all uniformly crappy. You'd think that somewhere, somehow, there'd be a functional black neighborhood, even here, or in the 3rd world. Pretty much every sub-saharan black country is crap........ you'd think that at least ONE of these would even poke its head into the 2nd world at least, but no. They are all in an endless mess of petty tribal warfare and other nonsense. 1 billion dollars of taxpayer $$$ to 'rebuild Haiti,' (lol)



quiet_dove
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29 Sep 2010, 2:45 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Institutionalizing diversity in a nation ensures that most of the residents, and if not them their progeny, will eventually have to embrace multiculturalist lifestyles...........

In America, the ability to reside in a unicultural area is gradually being eroded away.

The government builds little colonies of black people in housing complexes all over the country in 'white areas.' In America in fact, a city or county can get blasted by the government for being 'too white,' and then mandatory population transfers usually happen.

You will see it in suburbs as you get further and further out in a city. You'll see the townhouses go up, etc, etc.

And what's so wrong about multiculturalism? It's certainly better than racism and hatred.

Quote:
Personal experience and years of living in heavily minoritied areas, etc.

Every diverse insitution I've ever seen has been a model of dysfunction, including Army units composed heavily of black people(the Army is not immune to dysfunction.)

Pretty much every black-majority city or area in the USA is a MarionBerryesque festering hole. Amazingly, its all uniformly crappy. You'd think that somewhere, somehow, there'd be a functional black neighborhood, even here, or in the 3rd world. Pretty much every sub-saharan black country is crap........ you'd think that at least ONE of these would even poke its head into the 2nd world at least, but no. They are all in an endless mess of petty tribal warfare and other nonsense. 1 billion dollars of taxpayer $$$ to 'rebuild Haiti,' (lol)

Boston has a majority of black people, yet it's not a "festering hole." How do you explain that? And how do you explain all of the great accomplishments made by black people, if all black people are as primitive as you seem to think they are? In fact, here's a list of some accomplishments that black people have made throughout history:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... great.html

Like it or not, black people are capable of being just as intelligent as white people are. To deny that is to be willfully ignorant.


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29 Sep 2010, 2:47 pm

I have no idea why Americans are so afraid. =.= In death, we're all the same anyway. <.< -sigh-



hyperlexian
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29 Sep 2010, 3:00 pm

ikorack wrote:
Excuse me? my governments constitution states clearly who is a citizen the people born to Americans and born in America. Who are you a Canadian to tell me what my government thinks. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to welfare at all the only exception to this is when they have an American child otherwise they have to steal it using someone else's SSN.

EDIT: And even then legally speaking its the children who are receiving the aid.

ohhhh, okay... so illegal aliens technically are NOT allowed to receive welfare, then. you were saying the opposite before. if the welfare is for the children, the children must have been american-born.... would that mean the children are american, or not?

the original argument had been that illegal immigrants are abusing welfare, but that is not technically possible, based on the information you provided.

-----
someone a few pages back also tried to argue that health care costs in the united states are higher because of illegal immigrants, but that has not been borne out by the research. i found an interesting bit of information about health care costs among illegal immigrant populations:

Quote:
While rates of uninsurance are higher among immigrants as a group (authorized and unauthorized) than in the native-
born population, the number of native-born uninsured is larger than the number of uninsured immigrants. Further,
because immigrant usage of heath care services is significantly lower than that of native-born people, it becomes even
harder to make the case that immigrants drive these costs. Certainly, uncompensated care costs are a serious problem
for the health care system in the United States, particularly in areas with large numbers of uninsured patients. But, while
illegal immigration is a problem with many other dimensions, its links to uncompensated health care costs are far from
straightforward.


edited for clarity and with additional information


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 29 Sep 2010, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.