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iamnotaparakeet
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29 Sep 2010, 11:20 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Huh? No, I was trying to come up with a name for the PPR subforum's rejection of personal experience as evidence.

well, I thought that by "PP's Law" you may have meant Godwin's Law = PPR's law or something like that, given discussions related to racism and that I don't know what you mean by PP's exactly.

Just name the PPR forum as the PPR forum.
One of PPR's directives:
Evidence Please: No personal experience please, no conspiracy theories please, empirical and verifiable evidence should only be recognized.


PP is PPR truncated. PPR has directives though? Are they as crappy and contrived as the Prime Directive in the series of Star Trek or more so as the Three Laws Of Robotics?



iamnotaparakeet
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29 Sep 2010, 11:25 pm

Quote:
One of PPR's directives:
Evidence Please: No personal experience please, no conspiracy theories please, empirical and verifiable evidence should only be recognized.


I just wondered, what on Earth could be used as "empirical and verifiable evidence" on an internet forum? Website links that are then called biased, and then rejected because anything with a bias is absolutely wrong by default?



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29 Sep 2010, 11:34 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
quiet dove q

Quote:
You know what, Hanotaux? I give up.


The story of your life ...

Quote:
You're unwilling to admit that this country doesn't belong to white people


Obviously, to you white people have no place in this country and owe everything to those oppressed minorities.

Who does it belong to then?

I guess it belongs to black people then because of 'Slavery' and being 'oppressed,' despite the fact that there were a number of black slave owners, and larger black African political units were fully complicit in the slave trade.

This country does belong to the white majority. If immigrants don't like it, than they can leave. They made the conscious choice to come here, and how dare they get 'offended' because we won't cater to them and support their torpor even more than we already do.

Those immigrants came here on their own free will. They should accept their lot as what they get. They are metics.

Quote:
and you seem to completely ignore the fact that the Native Americans were here for centuries before the Puritans arrived, so really, this country belongs more to them than to you or to any other white person


The Indians also colonized America from Siberia. Indians have no more right to it than any other ethnic group.

Quote:
I'm going to just ignore all of your posts.


Good, your complete naivety is getting old. I'm sure with your withdrawl, the other liberals are breathing a sigh of relief as you've been embarassing them so with your obvious indoctrination and simple-mindedness.

Quote:
even though you've been nothing but rude to me


Actually, I haven't been rude to you.

You want to get on some forum and get into massive arguements on sensitive issues, and then have hair-trigger sensitivities and get upsetted when people choose to disagree with you, and you take offense over any perceived slight........

Besides the fact you are so damn naive, hyper-idealistic, and ridiculous that it is impossible to take you seriously.
i've highlighted where you are being rude, in case you didn't realize. it's kind of funny that you say that you were not rude to that person... in the midst of several insults!


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29 Sep 2010, 11:43 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
California propositions 187 and 209 were approved by voters to ban public services to alien invaders, but they were struck down in the state supreme court. Alien invaders regularly collect welfare, social security, foodstamps, and medicaid.

thank you, i stand corrected. american is more evolved and more supportive of its people than i had imagined!

They are not our people. For some reason the government does not check records to find them. If they are found some other way they will still be deported. They still have no right to be here and the government policies that allow them to collect services are tantamount to self-mutilation.


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29 Sep 2010, 11:45 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
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Anecdotal experience, I pressume you should know what that means in the PPR forum.


Uh yeah...........

I've really never seen anything else offered up in response besides a (liberal's) own positive experience with diversity, which is just as anecdotal.

Generally, I always see responses like, "I live with all of these black people, I live in a diverse neighborhood, work with minorities, etc, etc." How is this any less anecdotal?....... It just merely conforms to the multiculturalist paradigm and is thus unchallenged.

Positive and negative experiences are always anecdotal, and are not enough to consider factual or valid evidence , just by themselves, and it doesn't do much to prove a point in a debate like this, especially in the PPR forum, I mean an anecdotal experience *needs* to be corroborated and verified by empirical grounds, few cases by an impartial third party, given that the perspective you get from them are very subjective, thus anyone's perception based on anecdotal experience is unreliable to consider factual and go along with just that.

The issue with experiences with people from different races and from different places can be positive as well as negative, the issue is that people interpret each experience differently according to their own preconceptions, earlier experiences and even their own psychological and emotional state, so whatever claim made, it *needs* to be verified and studied. And well, from cultural and social studies, anthropology, psychology and psychiatry, the evidence doesn't favor your bias, but rather it favors the "liberals" anyway.


Look, I know you have an issue with black people and that you seem to suggest that the root of the "problem" is their race, and that you seem to base that on the idea that their biological and physical characteristics are different that on whites, thus whites are more civilized, the issue is that you don't have any empirical basis to support your belief, rather it seems a belief from past experiences, I mean, when you experience something in your life, it is very easy to make a generalization towards a group of people, I mean, there are mysoginists, missandrists, racists, anti-christians, and the rising of these thoughts from experience seems very common, it is rather absurd to give each of them the same level of credibility and validity regarding their own subjective claims, and it is absurd to consider Hanotaux's perspective above everyone else. So really, you don't have much of a substantial case.


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John_Browning
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29 Sep 2010, 11:56 pm

Anecdotal experience is valid in the case of dealing with people because there is not perfect control group. In this case, if you are surrounded by Hispanics that behave badly and many of them are here illegally, and if a sociological study says they are no more of a problem than anybody else, then that sociological study needs to be checked for bias and that local population of Hispanics needs to be investigated to see WTF is wrong with them. Many sociological studies get started over anecdotal evidence. In this case, if illegal immigration and the Hispanic community were not a problem to a lot of people who do not have much contact with each other, there would have never been any support for Arizona's SB1070, similar laws like it in other states, or for border security at the federal, level.


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29 Sep 2010, 11:56 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
PP is PPR truncated. PPR has directives though? Are they as crappy and contrived as the Prime Directive in the series of Star Trek or more so as the Three Laws Of Robotics?

I can see why you don't like Star Trek's Prime Directive, but when concentrating in the fictional universe, it makes sense.

hmmm, three Laws of Robotics, a thing that comes to mind is the slavery of artificial sentient beings.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I just wondered, what on Earth could be used as "empirical and verifiable evidence" on an internet forum?

Yeah well, that cannot be realistically a PPR directive, I mean, if the "Evidence Please" is made an imperative in the PPR forum, that would leave out most philosophies and all religions, thus I believe the PPR wouldn't be a PPR , rather pP or something like that, much less providing actual evidence on an internet forum.

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Website links that are then called biased, and then rejected because anything with a bias is absolutely wrong by default?

Because the source most be a reputable and credible source, reasonable people would likely not take pseudoscientific sources or conspiracy theorists sources seriously.


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John_Browning
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30 Sep 2010, 12:12 am

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
PP is PPR truncated. PPR has directives though? Are they as crappy and contrived as the Prime Directive in the series of Star Trek or more so as the Three Laws Of Robotics?

I can see why you don't like Star Trek's Prime Directive, but when concentrating in the fictional universe, it makes sense.

hmmm, three Laws of Robotics, a thing that comes to mind is the slavery of artificial sentient beings.

Exactly WTF does Star Trek and Isaac Asimov have to do with illegal immigration? You are going off on a tangent about the wrong kind of alien invaders,


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Hanotaux
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30 Sep 2010, 12:23 am

Quote:
quietdove


Also, it would probably be beyond the capacity of someone as limited as yourself to be aware of the probability that you are really just slavishly conforming to being a non-conformist. You may think you are being 'your own man,' but really you are just spitting out the same lines that have been pounded into your head by 23 years of 'color me human' indoctrination propegated by the federal Dept. of Education.

Many people seem to have a problem with resistance to the level of conformity demanded by the counterculture and the 'rainbow coalition.'

Quote:
few cases by an impartial third party


Most intelligent people have biases. In fact, I have no respect for milquetoast impartial individuals who profess no bias. Intelligent people must have strong opinions on pertinent issues that thus will translate to some sort of bias. So I don't buy the 'impartial third party.'

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And well, from cultural and social studies, anthropology, psychology and psychiatry, the evidence doesn't favor your bias, but rather it favors the "liberals" anyway


Because these fields are dominated by rabid liberals who have formed their own inquisition to root out anti-diversity heretics.

Such a system has been institutionalized to where opposition to diversity is the social, professional, academic, and political kiss of death. They are no better then medieval heliocentrists and slavish academics who took at face value all of the writings of Aristotle as absolute authority. The current sociologists have no more valid claim to absolute truth than the scholars of any other historical era. They pass off the diversity doctrine as absolute fact and permit no actual revisionism........ Why the heck should I even pay these reverse-fascists any lip service?

Quote:
I mean, there are mysoginists, missandrists, racists, anti-christians, and the rising of these thoughts from experience seems very common, it is rather absurd to give each of them the same level of credibility and validity regarding their own subjective claims, and it is absurd to consider Hanotaux's perspective above everyone else. So really, you don't have much of a substantial case.


yet a large percentage of this forum can make constant denigrating posts towards whites, christians, conservatives etc, and offer nothing more than their own anecdotal experiences, and they usually never get taken to task by the consensus.



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30 Sep 2010, 1:08 am

hyperlexian wrote:
ohhhh, okay... so illegal aliens technically are NOT allowed to receive welfare, then. you were saying the opposite before. if the welfare is for the children, the children must have been american-born.... would that mean the children are american, or not?

the original argument had been that illegal immigrants are abusing welfare, but that is not technically possible, based on the information you provided.

-----
someone a few pages back also tried to argue that health care costs in the united states are higher because of illegal immigrants, but that has not been borne out by the research. i found an interesting bit of information about health care costs among illegal immigrant populations:

Quote:
While rates of uninsurance are higher among immigrants as a group (authorized and unauthorized) than in the native-
born population, the number of native-born uninsured is larger than the number of uninsured immigrants. Further,
because immigrant usage of heath care services is significantly lower than that of native-born people, it becomes even
harder to make the case that immigrants drive these costs. Certainly, uncompensated care costs are a serious problem
for the health care system in the United States, particularly in areas with large numbers of uninsured patients.
But, while
illegal immigration is a problem with many other dimensions, its links to uncompensated health care costs are far from
straightforward.


edited for clarity and with additional information


Welfare fraud(stealing a SSN, reporting a child you do not take care of, not reporting a spouse, not reporting income you receive as an undocumented worker) in addition we are not allowed to turn away illegal immigrants from emergency health-care(or anyone else for that matter) the hospitals are usually not compensate for their troubles and it drives up every bodies cost. This is really becoming more of a problem as prices keep being driven up by lawsuits and people claiming emergency health-care without paying. Yes the children are American but their parents are not I'm of the mind that if a family has an American child and the parents are illegal immigrants the child should become a ward of its state.(i realize this is a bit radical but if we just took away the (stolen)benefits and cracked down on welfare fraud would disappear but the need of the child might not.) Also i feel the need to point out that many groups abuse the welfare system and that as a whole it is corrupt this is not really by design but in the fact that they are not investigating the people on government assistance as they should. I put certain parts of your quote that i feel you should looked over again in bold, also a link to the source of your quote would be appreciated. Also the quote is likely talking about legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants but i can't check that because you failed to include a link to its source.

@Hanotaux No one likes to see a jackass kick a dog i suggest you ignore her before someone reports you for harassment she is naive ridiculous and idealist but thats a reason to ignore her not to keep responding to her.

EDIT: and Hanotaux your in no position to suggest they show some civility to white Christians you show the same disrespect to minorities as they do to Christianity.



Hanotaux
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30 Sep 2010, 1:43 am

Quote:
Hanotaux No one likes to see a jackass kick a dog i suggest you ignore her before someone reports you for harassment she is naive ridiculous and idealist but thats a reason to ignore her not to keep responding to her.


I was purposely trying to ignore him/her, but QD kept demanding to know why I wasn't responding to him/her



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30 Sep 2010, 1:54 am

I suggest Quiet Dove get more practice debating less controversial topics before wading into hot button issues.


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BigK
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30 Sep 2010, 4:48 am

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
And why are you so willing to discount everything that black people have ever done?


I don't discount their acheivements, but their accomplishments get way over-magnified for the sake of the diversity agenda that implies Black supremacy.


You can't have it both ways Hanotaux. You complain that people are not progressing but you don't want to do anything to help that.
You still have people so horribly brainwashed by the legacy of slavery that they don't believe that they are worth anything or can achieve anything.

If you want people to achieve and improve their position you first need them to believe that they can.
Your rants just reinforce the same old slave master line. It is intentionally designed to keep people in their place and prevent them from aspiring to a better life and encroaching on the more fertile areas reserved for respectable white folks.

Do you really believe that every white person is better than every black person?
Or is giving that impression just part of your propaganda?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyI77Yh1Gg[/youtube]


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30 Sep 2010, 4:57 am

It seems as though a lot of help is need for the poor.

But then, who really wants more competition?

Keep the poor poor so they don't start moving into 'our' neighbourhoods, competing for places in 'our' schools e.t.c.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7784269.stm

Take your pick


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30 Sep 2010, 8:03 am

ikorack wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ohhhh, okay... so illegal aliens technically are NOT allowed to receive welfare, then. you were saying the opposite before. if the welfare is for the children, the children must have been american-born.... would that mean the children are american, or not?

the original argument had been that illegal immigrants are abusing welfare, but that is not technically possible, based on the information you provided.

-----
someone a few pages back also tried to argue that health care costs in the united states are higher because of illegal immigrants, but that has not been borne out by the research. i found an interesting bit of information about health care costs among illegal immigrant populations:

Quote:
While rates of uninsurance are higher among immigrants as a group (authorized and unauthorized) than in the native-
born population, the number of native-born uninsured is larger than the number of uninsured immigrants. Further,
because immigrant usage of heath care services is significantly lower than that of native-born people, it becomes even
harder to make the case that immigrants drive these costs. Certainly, uncompensated care costs are a serious problem
for the health care system in the United States, particularly in areas with large numbers of uninsured patients.
But, while
illegal immigration is a problem with many other dimensions, its links to uncompensated health care costs are far from
straightforward.


edited for clarity and with additional information


Welfare fraud(stealing a SSN, reporting a child you do not take care of, not reporting a spouse, not reporting income you receive as an undocumented worker) in addition we are not allowed to turn away illegal immigrants from emergency health-care(or anyone else for that matter) the hospitals are usually not compensate for their troubles and it drives up every bodies cost. This is really becoming more of a problem as prices keep being driven up by lawsuits and people claiming emergency health-care without paying. Yes the children are American but their parents are not I'm of the mind that if a family has an American child and the parents are illegal immigrants the child should become a ward of its state.(i realize this is a bit radical but if we just took away the (stolen)benefits and cracked down on welfare fraud would disappear but the need of the child might not.) Also i feel the need to point out that many groups abuse the welfare system and that as a whole it is corrupt this is not really by design but in the fact that they are not investigating the people on government assistance as they should. I put certain parts of your quote that i feel you should looked over again in bold, also a link to the source of your quote would be appreciated. Also the quote is likely talking about legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants but i can't check that because you failed to include a link to its source.

@Hanotaux No one likes to see a jackass kick a dog i suggest you ignore her before someone reports you for harassment she is naive ridiculous and idealist but thats a reason to ignore her not to keep responding to her.

EDIT: and Hanotaux your in no position to suggest they show some civility to white Christians you show the same disrespect to minorities as they do to Christianity.
i don't understand why i would be looking back over the bolded parts, as they support my argument. perhaps you should reread it so that it becomes clearer to you?

how could the quote be talking about legal immigrants if it says illegal immigrants right in the text? are you implying that i misquoted something, just because you don't agree with it? that's silly!! !

http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigrat ... _costs.pdf


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