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jc6chan
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18 Oct 2010, 1:23 pm

Ok, so I have heard for the millionth time of how a person needs to support the military of the country they are living in since the soldiers "fight for their freedom blah blah blah...".

First of all, in a lot of the conflicts, the cause and effect of soldiers fighting for a citizen's freedom is not always true. Take Canadians in Afghanistan for example. The 9/11 attacks were on AMERICANS, not Canadians. The reason why we are on Bin Laden's hit list for terror attacks is because we invaded Afghanistan. Besides, do the miltiary prescence of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan really have an impact in Canadian's freedom? If anything, the terror threat against Canadian citizens have INCREASED as a result.

Secondly, doesn't the thing I wrote in the title of the thread kind of takes away our freedom to judge the whole war situation by looking from a neutral standpoint? The thing is that there will always be biased propaganda that your government wants you to hear.

Not convinced about my point? How about the fact that it was a bad thing for so many Germans to support the Nazis during WW2?

Thanks to the Internet and lack of censorship, we can now know better not to fall for the government's tactics. I believe we all shouold have the freedom to judge for ourselves whether what the troops are doing is actually for a good cause.

Think about it...would you want all Lebanese to blindly support Hezbollah? Would you want all Tamils to blindly support the LTTE? Would you want all Gazans to support Hamas?

And so it is, why would any country in the world want its people to blindly support their troops?

Thanks for reading.



sartresue
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18 Oct 2010, 2:20 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Ok, so I have heard for the millionth time of how a person needs to support the military of the country they are living in since the soldiers "fight for their freedom blah blah blah...".

First of all, in a lot of the conflicts, the cause and effect of soldiers fighting for a citizen's freedom is not always true. Take Canadians in Afghanistan for example. The 9/11 attacks were on AMERICANS, not Canadians. The reason why we are on Bin Laden's hit list for terror attacks is because we invaded Afghanistan. Besides, do the miltiary prescence of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan really have an impact in Canadian's freedom? If anything, the terror threat against Canadian citizens have INCREASED as a result.

Secondly, doesn't the thing I wrote in the title of the thread kind of takes away our freedom to judge the whole war situation by looking from a neutral standpoint? The thing is that there will always be biased propaganda that your government wants you to hear.

Not convinced about my point? How about the fact that it was a bad thing for so many Germans to support the Nazis during WW2?

Thanks to the Internet and lack of censorship, we can now know better not to fall for the government's tactics. I believe we all shouold have the freedom to judge for ourselves whether what the troops are doing is actually for a good cause.

Think about it...would you want all Lebanese to blindly support Hezbollah? Would you want all Tamils to blindly support the LTTE? Would you want all Gazans to support Hamas?

And so it is, why would any country in the world want its people to blindly support their troops?

Thanks for reading.


Support optional topic

I am not a fan of war, but in Canada the troop support is for the peacekeeping missions of Canadian military personnel, and empathy for the families who have lost a relative due to violence in Afghanistan. Bereaved families wonder about the sacrifice of their relatives, and this is a sensitive issue so if a group protests the war these relatives wonder if the sacrifice is worth it, knowing that the relatives were volunteers, and not conscripts, and that the victims' honour be recognized. There is probably some guilty feelings, in the sense that these soldiers died for us and the rest should be grateful, or even a sort of shadenfreude in that Person X died instead of Person Y.

Many Canadian soldiers died because of roadside bombs planted by insurgeants. Many families who do not have soldier relatives are trying to make sense of this randomness of death. I have no idea if this makes more sense, J6, but putting a face to war and naming highways and making memorials to the dead makes each death mean something more.


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skafather84
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18 Oct 2010, 3:25 pm

I don't necessarily support wars but I always show respect and love for the troops. Actually ran into a marine Saturday night and bought him a shot.


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visagrunt
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18 Oct 2010, 4:02 pm

I don't think that you should equate support for members of the Canadian Forces and support for the policy of the Government of Canada. The Government has taken the decision that we have a role to play in Afghanistan. You are perfectly free to support or oppose that decision as reason and your conscience dictate (or, indeed for any reason that you choose).

But individual members of the Canadian Forces are in Kandahar because they have signed on to be members of the CF and the CF has deployed them there. They are instruments of government policy, but they did not and do not make that policy. I, for one, have the utmost respect for a people who will put their lives or their well-being on the line to discharge a dangerous duty.

This applies just as much to police officers, firefighters, and various private individuals as it does to members of the CF.

If you visit the website of the Governor General you can browse the citations for Canadian bravery decorations (both civilian and military). If you have the time, read the Cross of Valour recipients' citations--there are only 20.

http://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?q=&t=3&p= ... f%20Valour


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Jacoby
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18 Oct 2010, 4:45 pm

There is a big difference between supporting the troops and supporting the wars. The troops are just young men and women just barely adults that took it upon themselves to put their lives on the line to serve their countries. They have no say on policy. They're just doing their job. The politicians are to blame.



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18 Oct 2010, 5:40 pm

How anyone can support the arms of imperialism and those who commit war crimes is beyond me.

Every single soldier who has ever fired a depleted uranium, or DU, bullet has committed a war crime.



jc6chan
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18 Oct 2010, 7:09 pm

My computer is kinda not working well so I may not post for a long time. Anyway, I understand that we should remember those who died in the fighting but what about remember those on the enemy side who died? We never talk about that.



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18 Oct 2010, 7:50 pm

we don't have to support our troops. asking why we need to support our troops is like asking why the sky is red when it isn't. why people think we need to support our troops is probably because they didn't all to much or where lied to (probably unintentionally) most of their lives



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18 Oct 2010, 8:16 pm

Jacoby wrote:
There is a big difference between supporting the troops and supporting the wars. The troops are just young men and women just barely adults that took it upon themselves to put their lives on the line to serve their countries. They have no say on policy. They're just doing their job. The politicians are to blame.

The bolded part is why I don't understand why the troops are deserving of hero-worship, or should somehow be regarded as better people than others. The members of the armed forces are just doing a job. They are more or less ordinary people, and as a misanthrope I'm rather disdainful of ordinary people.


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18 Oct 2010, 8:50 pm

Orwell wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There is a big difference between supporting the troops and supporting the wars. The troops are just young men and women just barely adults that took it upon themselves to put their lives on the line to serve their countries. They have no say on policy. They're just doing their job. The politicians are to blame.

The bolded part is why I don't understand why the troops are deserving of hero-worship, or should somehow be regarded as better people than others. The members of the armed forces are just doing a job. They are more or less ordinary people, and as a misanthrope I'm rather disdainful of ordinary people.


I think the sentence right before the bolded part kind of explains it.



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18 Oct 2010, 9:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There is a big difference between supporting the troops and supporting the wars. The troops are just young men and women just barely adults that took it upon themselves to put their lives on the line to serve their countries. They have no say on policy. They're just doing their job. The politicians are to blame.

The bolded part is why I don't understand why the troops are deserving of hero-worship, or should somehow be regarded as better people than others. The members of the armed forces are just doing a job. They are more or less ordinary people, and as a misanthrope I'm rather disdainful of ordinary people.


I think the sentence right before the bolded part kind of explains it.

I disagree with that characterization as being valid. People have a variety of different motives for joining the military, and I don't buy the common cliché that they just want to "serve their country" even if I were foolish enough to believe that the act of joining the military is a way of serving the country. Not in the modern world.


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Jacoby
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18 Oct 2010, 10:11 pm

Another reason I think supporting the troops is stressed is response to the way the troops in Vietnam were treated.



skafather84
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18 Oct 2010, 10:14 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Another reason I think supporting the troops is stressed is response to the way the troops in Vietnam were treated.


*Are treated*


Many of them still are not getting the proper health care and help needed.


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18 Oct 2010, 10:27 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Another reason I think supporting the troops is stressed is response to the way the troops in Vietnam were treated.


*Are treated*


Many of them still are not getting the proper health care and help needed.

In regards to health care and any other help, isn't that the task of the government? The government put them in a situation where they faced serious health risks (including dismemberment and death) and caused many of them long-term health problems. Certainly the government must be responsible for providing for their needs in regards to such matters, and I have no objection to paying higher taxes to support veterans.


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18 Oct 2010, 11:45 pm

jc6chan wrote:
The 9/11 attacks were on AMERICANS, not Canadians.


Well... actually, that's not entirely accurate. Although the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated on U.S. soil, foreign nationals of several other countries were also killed, including 24 Canadian citizens.



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19 Oct 2010, 2:28 am

Chevand wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
The 9/11 attacks were on AMERICANS, not Canadians.


Well... actually, that's not entirely accurate. Although the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated on U.S. soil, foreign nationals of several other countries were also killed, including 24 Canadian citizens.


The intended target was the United States and its interests. The non-U.S. folks who got killed were collateral damage.

The al Queda operation apparently was to make plain to people in the U.S. that they are not safe at home. In that regard it was a very successful operation.

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