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Philologos
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11 Jun 2011, 10:38 pm

No more Mr. Nice Guy.

I have given you Sir Thomas Brown [http://penelope.uchicago.edu/relmed/relmed.html] and ye have not danced; I have given you Simone Weil [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=102841384], and ye have not lamented.

Now, have a go at Annie:

http://lovestthoume.com/AnniesVisionsmenu.html

She is highly unusual - I might say unique. What she sees is totally unlike what you would expect from an Evangelical source. Some of us feel there is an authenticity not to be ignored. Sci fi buffs are particularly urged to compare and contrast.



Benbob
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11 Jun 2011, 10:42 pm

"Annie Are You OK?
So, Annie Are You OK
Are You OK, Annie
Annie Are You OK?
So, Annie Are You OK
Are You OK, Annie
Annie Are You OK?
So, Annie Are You OK?
Are You OK, Annie?
Annie Are You OK?
So, Annie Are You Ok, Are You Ok, Annie?"

No, seriously, is this Annie suffering a psychological disorder?



Philologos
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11 Jun 2011, 10:49 pm

Well, that was a fast read. But you could get that or another idea from just one short sample.

I would say no. The way the visions are reported, their content, argue against it.

But of course there are those who would maintain that belief in a divine entity, let alone receiving communications from a divine entity, not even mentioning letting other people KNOW it happened, would count as psychological disorder. Look what they did to Joan of Arc.

If your standards allow sane people to believe in God, then the answer is clearly no.



Benbob
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11 Jun 2011, 10:56 pm

If she wasn't insane then she could just be attention seeking, along with her pastor. But hey, when she wins the lottery with prophetic accuracy (as in with a P value of <0.05), then I'd consider her claims.

Remember, libraries are full of elaborate and consistent works of fiction.

Edit:

Also, I put sanity on a bell curve, so no, I don't think people can be entirely sane and superstitious.


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Philologos
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11 Jun 2011, 11:19 pm

Benbob wrote:
If she wasn't insane then she could just be attention seeking, along with her pastor. But hey, when she wins the lottery with prophetic accuracy (as in with a P value of <0.05), then I'd consider her claims.

Remember, libraries are full of elaborate and consistent works of fiction.

Edit:

Also, I put sanity on a bell curve, so no, I don't think people can be entirely sane and superstitious.


The pastor, one might wonder. But they have not exactly received heaps of cash and recognition out of this. Not exactly widely known.

She is actually not making claims. Just recording data. Like all data, take them or leave them. She does not even throw in interpretation, though occasionally the pastor will include a note.

The lottery? If you get a "prophetic" tip on the lottery or the third race, it did not come from God. Check out Don Camillo. By THAT standard, the Global Warming debate would be over, because none of the meltdown forecasters have won the lottery any more than the ice age forecaster of my young days did.

Just so you know, belief in a divine entity is not superstition. The two are very different and not really compatible.



Sand
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11 Jun 2011, 11:28 pm

Philologos wrote:
Benbob wrote:
If she wasn't insane then she could just be attention seeking, along with her pastor. But hey, when she wins the lottery with prophetic accuracy (as in with a P value of <0.05), then I'd consider her claims.

Remember, libraries are full of elaborate and consistent works of fiction.

Edit:

Also, I put sanity on a bell curve, so no, I don't think people can be entirely sane and superstitious.


The pastor, one might wonder. But they have not exactly received heaps of cash and recognition out of this. Not exactly widely known.

She is actually not making claims. Just recording data. Like all data, take them or leave them. She does not even throw in interpretation, though occasionally the pastor will include a note.

The lottery? If you get a "prophetic" tip on the lottery or the third race, it did not come from God. Check out Don Camillo. By THAT standard, the Global Warming debate would be over, because none of the meltdown forecasters have won the lottery any more than the ice age forecaster of my young days did.

Just so you know, belief in a divine entity is not superstition. The two are very different and not really compatible.


Global warming is supported by huge masses of reliable data that is verifiable and accumulating. Belief in a deity has no data for support. Absolutely none. If you cannot perceive that difference then your perceptive ability becomes questionable.



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11 Jun 2011, 11:29 pm

Philologos wrote:
The pastor, one might wonder. But they have not exactly received heaps of cash and recognition out of this. Not exactly widely known.

She is actually not making claims. Just recording data. Like all data, take them or leave them. She does not even throw in interpretation, though occasionally the pastor will include a note.

The lottery? If you get a "prophetic" tip on the lottery or the third race, it did not come from God. Check out Don Camillo. By THAT standard, the Global Warming debate would be over, because none of the meltdown forecasters have won the lottery any more than the ice age forecaster of my young days did.

Just so you know, belief in a divine entity is not superstition. The two are very different and not really compatible.


It's possible to have a sincere belief in nonsense - many mentally ill people do.

Ah, no, her data isn't verifiable. Science doesn't work on data you either believe in or reject, that would be stupid.

I was using the lottery as a hyperbole, show me an unambiguous prophet that makes claims with the same success as science and we'll talk. Oh, and your attacks on climate change are based on..?

As for your own delusions - evidence or gtfo.


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Philologos
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11 Jun 2011, 11:44 pm

Let me tell you, ANY science what gets published - because the researcher has the right sort of evidence - is the tip of the iceberg. It is like mining. You see a vein of ore, just a a thin tracem you follow it, maybe eventually you get lucky and find the mother lode. Maybe not, in which case another great idea sits on the back burner until somebody can take it the next step.

I really get tired of the paranoia. My "attacks on climate change"? Where?

What I SAID was, "[Taking predicting the lottery as the criterion for accurate prediction], the Global Warming debate would be over, because none of the meltdown forecasters have won the lottery any more than the ice age forecaster of my young days did." What does that attack? Whom does it attack? How does it attack it?"

If you want my views on the climate toktok [see Sam Clemens' mot], just ask. For now I will just say, I do not attack much of anybody, and certainly not climatologists. I leave that for the Strident Thought Police [the exceptions know who they are].

What I should perhaps have included, and will say now - she is not "predicting", any more than the Book of Revelation is [yes, there are those who want to do a Nostradamus number on it]. What she - and I believe Revelation - is presenting is a synchronous [bad word, but it will have to do] view from outside. Most of it is current events seen from an angle normally unavailable. But if you read a bit and thought about it you know that.



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11 Jun 2011, 11:47 pm

So crazy girl says crazy things, and bad things happen? This fails to shock me.


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11 Jun 2011, 11:52 pm

Philologos wrote:
Let me tell you, ANY science what gets published - because the researcher has the right sort of evidence - is the tip of the iceberg. It is like mining. You see a vein of ore, just a a thin tracem you follow it, maybe eventually you get lucky and find the mother lode. Maybe not, in which case another great idea sits on the back burner until somebody can take it the next step.

I really get tired of the paranoia. My "attacks on climate change"? Where?

What I SAID was, "[Taking predicting the lottery as the criterion for accurate prediction], the Global Warming debate would be over, because none of the meltdown forecasters have won the lottery any more than the ice age forecaster of my young days did." What does that attack? Whom does it attack? How does it attack it?"

If you want my views on the climate toktok [see Sam Clemens' mot], just ask. For now I will just say, I do not attack much of anybody, and certainly not climatologists. I leave that for the Strident Thought Police [the exceptions know who they are].

What I should perhaps have included, and will say now - she is not "predicting", any more than the Book of Revelation is [yes, there are those who want to do a Nostradamus number on it]. What she - and I believe Revelation - is presenting is a synchronous [bad word, but it will have to do] view from outside. Most of it is current events seen from an angle normally unavailable. But if you read a bit and thought about it you know that.


You used the word "superstition".

This from Merriam-Webster:

Definition of SUPERSTITION
1
a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

I would suspect, as a linguist, you might be familiar with the dictionary.



Philologos
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12 Jun 2011, 12:00 am

Benbob wrote:
So crazy girl says crazy things, and bad things happen? This fails to shock me.


I provide the data. YOU choose whether to read, whether to think, and how to interpret.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. I did my part.



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12 Jun 2011, 12:14 am

Philologos wrote:
Benbob wrote:
So crazy girl says crazy things, and bad things happen? This fails to shock me.


I provide the data. YOU choose whether to read, whether to think, and how to interpret.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. I did my part.


You provided rubbish data for an obviously bogus claim that has no supporting evidence. Don't get in a grump if your lack of hard evidence fails to convince people.

I mean what did you expect? People to go "oh wow, anecdotal evidence over the internet, that must be true! Your faith is valid!" ... I hope not.


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12 Jun 2011, 6:51 am

Philologos wrote:
... belief in a divine entity is not superstition. The two are very different and not really compatible.

To wit:
Sand wrote:
This from Merriam-Webster:

Definition of SUPERSTITION
1
a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary


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12 Jun 2011, 6:54 am

Benbob wrote:
As for your own delusions - evidence or gtfo.

That makes no sense. Delusions have no evidence, and telling a delusional person to "get the f**k out" is far from helpful to anyone.


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Philologos
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12 Jun 2011, 10:19 am

Benbob wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Benbob wrote:
So crazy girl says crazy things, and bad things happen? This fails to shock me.


I provide the data. YOU choose whether to read, whether to think, and how to interpret.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. I did my part.


You provided rubbish data for an obviously bogus claim that has no supporting evidence. Don't get in a grump if your lack of hard evidence fails to convince people.

I mean what did you expect? People to go "oh wow, anecdotal evidence over the internet, that must be true! Your faith is valid!" ... I hope not.


Bloody smudgefires, man, will you NEVER even TRY to understand:

READ my CAREFULLY used caps: I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYBODY.

In my own field I am really lousy at convincing people. I do not convince, and I am not easy TO convince.

What do I expect? I expect a few people MAY find the material of interest. I jhave no way of knowing - nor do I care - hosw they intrerpret it.

What do I expect? I expect blind boors to belittle without thought, spewing forth their bile before the bite has touched their lips.

What do I expect? I expect that perhaps one or two others might also post data that might lead to thought and discussion instead of counting coup in the Strident Atheist Stakes.



Philologos
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12 Jun 2011, 10:21 am

leejosepho wrote:
Philologos wrote:
... belief in a divine entity is not superstition. The two are very different and not really compatible.

To wit:
Sand wrote:
This from Merriam-Webster:

Definition of SUPERSTITION
1
a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary


I would say much of what Sand says fits into definition # 1.

Benbob's talk does not quite qualify for #2 because he has yet to notice evidence to the contrary.